Keep in mind, you can oicho EX psycho crusher which completely takes out THEIR get out of jail free card on wakes. Use this to keep them in check and get back into meaty jab hhs pressure on wakes and headbutting/U1ing any teleport attempts. nj. fierce stops any attempts to get in through the air. Strong footsies vs bison win this match up. s. fierce/rh are good buttons =P
I had a suspicion you might be on crack when you made this post, so I went to training mode and confirmed that yes, yes you are. Even if you sit well outside of low jab range (thereby nullifying the threat of low jab hands), if you block the EX psycho crusher you are still too far away to punish with oicho. I also tried grabbing the EX PC out of start up, and that failed as well.
Anyway I find that most bisonās typically will either Teleport back, EX headstomp, or just block on wakeup. Havenāt run into too many EX psycho crusherās.
Iāll go check it out now, but I am 100% sure that Iāve grabbed Bison out of EX PC on start up. I normally NJ. Fierce on Bisonās wake up anyways. It beats EX headstomp clean and allows for jab hands pressure if he blocks.
Edit: Btw whatup streak I just remembered you =P I used to play with ya in vanilla, you roll with kryptoknife right? I recently picked up Honda for Ibukiās shit matchups.
Editx2: Youāre right, thats really weird. I mustāve oichoād him from EX SK or EX HS then, but I know iāve grabbed him out of some yellow flash heh.
Yeah, I play with krypto, pretty sure you just whipped my ass in a ranked match, haha. I hate honda mirrors.
Yeah honda mirror matches are annoying @@ Itās a almost complete footsies and patience game. Itās annoying chasing honda with honda hahaha
lol i actually enjoy honda mirror matchesā¦ really helps me with my footsies game.
Heh, so I thought it was bad while I was playing Ibuki but playing against Ibuki makes it even MORE apparent. Iām PRETTY sure the Ibuki Honda matchup is 7-3 Ibuki.
-Vortex is unavoidable.
-Canāt HB through kunai zoning.
-EVERY useful air-to-ground coming from Ibuki STUFFS EX HB.
-Her b+mp AA --> cmd dash --> kazegiri beats all hondas air-to-grounds for LOTS of damage.
-Her crossup game destroys Honda and his charges =( Pair that with his slow jab and it makes for free pressure against him with command dashes.
The ONLY thing I can see in Hondaās favor here is her low life and his big damage output.
The funny thing is, I picked Honda to deal with the Bison matchup, BUT Iā'm still having trouble with it lulz.
Went to training mode, and yeah, back strong is an amazing anti air. The only time I was able to trade with it was when I mis-timed it with Ibuki, haha. It sucks but it looks like Ibuki is another character we canāt jump in on, have to move forward on the ground and save the jumps for cross ups.
You can headbutt through the kunais, but the dagger has to be below your head to go through it. Properly timed (not easy) you can go through a fierce kunai full screen and punish Ibuki for it, if you mis-time it though sheāll be able to block. U1 is probably the way to go here, much easier to tag her through the kunais than it is with heabutts. EX headbutt is also slightly easier to time since itās faster.
You can get out of the vortex, you just have to block the kunai the right way and the block whatever she has planned for you from the other side. Or just back dash away from her after you block the kunai. Iāve never been real big on back dashing but it seems to be the way to go on characters that like to cross you up and then pressure you from the other side because they know you canāt EX headbutt out.
Ibuki is 5-5 E.Honda easily. Huge damage difference, ways to get out of the vortex by just headbutting late or focus dashing out of it spontaneously, easily maneuverability against kunai (nj.fp), better normals. I donāt see how anybody can see this match-up as worse than 6-4 ibuki. People donāt understand how severe 6-4 and 7-3 is.
Only 6-4ās are probably chun, guile, sim and rufus. Rest is just even or +/- .5.
Jeesus christ wtf is wrong with this subforum. Honda has better footsies than bison, out-turtles bison, jab headbutt is safe, headstomps are useless, devils reverse is fodder for ex/ultra done predictably and s.hk trades hondaās s.fp incredibly poorly since thereās a noticeable dmg difference and honda has more hp. Only way bison wins this match-up is by making hondas impatient. If you can walk-up hhs, this match-up is probably 5.5-4.5 honda at worst.
People donāt realize how shitty s.hk is as a poke and how godly c.lp is as a poke for honda considering itās invincible, cancels and ducks honda. Hell, the reason Hugo101 sent me to losers in NCR is because Alex Valle had to continually lecture him to stop playing offensively and to hold down back over and over. Impatient dictator is free.
And talking about mike ross barely winning in pools is a moot point cause he was in top 8. Mike is probably one of the least patient hondaās in America and he knows it. He has his own style which I respect, but the way this forum uses him as a benchmark is retarded. Mike wins with good player reading and unpredictability, not patience and fundamentals, altho he does have good fundamentals and spacing. I will say tho, after talking with him a few times, the dudeās so pretty w/ those blue eyes. <3 you mike cause I know youāre going to search your name to find your fan boys.
Apparently you donāt even read this forum. Iāll tell you to go back and read but thatās obviously not your strong point, Iāll hit you with the highlights:
Jab Headbutt is NOT safe.
We were specifically talking about how difficult turtle bison is, not impatient ones.
Then you state that you lost to a turtle bison who sent you to losers!
LP Headbutt is -9. LK Scissors starts up in 10. LP Headbutt has been safe against scissors since vanilla and it hasnāt changed. Unless from now since NCR, the game got updated or Hugo101 doesnāt know how to reversal, i donāt know wtf ur talking about.
The whole point of my post is to say you make the bison impatient if he is patient. You just sit there. Donāt do crazy shit and just time it out if you have to. If he wonāt move, you hhs, gain life advantage and run away. Then proceed to not give it up. What I didnt mention is hugo101 is probably a better overall player than me so Iām not surprised he beat me, but the whole point is he needed an excessive amount of coaching from valle to actually win.
Iāll tell you, playing honda is obviously not your strong point if you think honda is any bit disadvantaged against bison.
I donāt wanna go on and on about how to beat bison cause itās probably wasted effort, but in your response to wake-up ex psycho crusher, itās free reversal ultra one once he passes through you if you actually know how to flip U1 to the other side.
charge b,f, b, f, b + PPP and you get free ultra. The good bisonās backdash cause ex headstomp is a waste of meter and dangerous cause all you do is take a step back and he lands rite in front of u for free dmg. EX Devilās reverse is a free headbutt if predicted correctly and teleport is a free ex headbutt on reaction. I can go on and on about match-up specific things that you donāt realize but the match-up is not bad at all. I would worry much more about playing any decent chun like shizza or rom, over playing somebody like andyocr or hugo101.
ugh more edits cause every time i go back a page, i see more misinformation.
Honda has 3, maybe 4 good jump-ins. jab, strong, fierce and roundhouse (mk is a cross-up and it works, but it sucks). Roundhouse is probably one of the best jump-ins in the game and it gives bison of all people the most problem cause if you do it early, it trades s.hk. The thing about trades with honda is you trade positively cause itās 10 dmg more, and honda has more hp.
Iāve gone crazy, I tested it way back in vanilla and it stuck in my head ever since, but apparently I was wrong there too, sorry.
Thatās what kills me about new Hondaās, they have to work a little bit and the match becomes 7-3. 
The Ibuki match is 5-5 border line 6-4 her. Her biggest threat is the Vortex but if you pay attention youāll be able to block it. Itās not like Akumaās where you truly die after a good one knocks you down. lol
Iām still having a hard time with the fight but in the end itās very possible to wipe the floor with the dumb bitch.
Also only like 6 cast members can punish LP headbutt and not every player is perfect to punish shit on reaction. I get away with Random headbutts in mid block strings to try and punish back dashes and when they get blocked people donāt press counter attack.
The Dic match is very 5-5, and itās that very 5-5 because if both players have a handle on things theyāll understand what they can do and not in a match.
Side note, when I was at evo I heard people talking about match ups and they had no fucking clue what they were talking about.
Who here can tell me what a match up means?
(Hondaās only 7-3 match up was Sagat in Vanilla) There is a reason heās number two on the Global tier list.
Yeah I was clearly handicapping myself in the match by being afraid to throw jab headbutts, haha. Iām a scrub anyway.
Haha, sorry guys, yea. I just normally have a field day on Honda when playing Ibuki and when playing against Ibukiās I just get frustrated haha. Donāt get me wrong, overall Iām having a huge amount of success with Honda and am really enjoying the way he plays.
I think where Iām really going wrong in the Bison match up is I really donāt know what to do once HE takes the life lead and sits full screen. They mostly just zone with LK SK and then sit back out, not really ever giving me the chance to get in for jab HHS. Everything else I have absolutely no problem with.
Pieguy: I really gotta get out to Davis to session with you fellas more often. Dunno if you remember me, Iām the silly Sagat from Stockton that used to head up there. I feel like my Honda is already pretty solid but can still use a lotta work. Iāll start checking the Davis forum more often @@
I donāt really see whatās so bad about the Ibuki matchup, it seems like most of the problems Viper has are there for Ibuki too. I thought it was 6-4 in our favor (edit: before the tier list). Weird. Can people just not block?
Itās the way of life people, generally those young whipper snappers blame everyone and everything before looking at themselves. Itās definitely not just Hondaās.
Which tier list has come out now?
anyone else sitting full screen on sagat guessing on low TS? its the best TIMMMME OVERRRR
IMO, take out Rufus and replace him with Ryu and then the set of bad matches is complete. People will probably disagree, but Ryu played at high level is very bad for Honda. I am talking about good footsies, good zoning, untechable knockdwon hungry, option select Ryus. I know its the most blatant example, but anyone watch the way Daigo managed Mike Ross at EVO by any chanceā¦especially in the first game? Once he got the knockdown I think he threw him 3 times following a safe jump and this was all after the first time Mike Ross tried to EX headbutt him and ate a OS DP after the first knockdown - you have to take the pressure! Iām not disrespecting Mike Ross either. I thought the guy played his socks off, itās just that he came across one of the best players on the planet who happens to use a character that can really put Honda under constant pressure after one knockdown.
Actually, come to think of it, Seth is still surely a 6-4 match to Seth?
Another day, another tier list. The interesting thing with this one is that it not only lists the individual match-ups but also places Honda firmly at the top, alongside Chun Li. Helped on his way by no fewer than 9(?) 7-3 match ups. If this is to be believed then the only truely bad match-up for Honda is olā Thunder Thighs herself. Not to sure of the validity of this but wondered what the rest of the Honda army thinks.
Super Street Fighter 4 Tiers ? Character Rankings : EventHubs.com