Honda Combos

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
501

Meter is important to all characters. But to Honda meter is vital to the characters viability and utillity. EX.HB, EX.BS, and super are too valuable to waste meter on things that have very little gain. If you have a strategy of “saving” your meter for AA and reversals only, that’s your choice. But you shouldn’t then be passing up damage to save meter then “waste” it on FADC’s. There should be a way to determine what is a good use of meter.
If you look at almost the thriftiest meter using Hondas, most will agree that using your meter for c.lp xx hp.hhs xx super or c.lk, c.lp xx hp.hhs xx super is a good use of 4 bars. Let’s look at what those four bars were worth vs the standard BnB c.lp xx hp.hhs, s.hk:

c.lp xx hp.hhs xx super 420
c.lp xx hp.hhs, s.hk -225
** =195 damage / 49 DPB (Damage Per Bar)**

I’ll round up and call it 50 dmg per bar. So when looking at meter usage I would consider any option that generates 50 additional damage for 1 bar as a good use of meter. If you want to compare that to other characters, vanilla Akuma’s s.hk, c.lk xx lk.HK, DP xx FADC red fireball combos generated 50 additional damage for 2 bars.
So lets look at the combos that are being questioned as a waste of meter. Each combo will be measured versus c.lp xx hp.hhs, s.hk (225 damage) to determine the damage per bar:

c.lp xx hp.hhs, EX.hhs 257 damage / 32 DPB
c.lp xx hp.hhs, EX.hhs (blocked c.lp xx hp.hhs) 283 / 58 DPB (missed your link)
c.lp xx hp.hhs, EX.hhs, c.lp xx hp.hhs 348 / 123 DPB
c.lp xx hp.hhs, EX.hhs reset lp.oichio 417 / 192 DPB

Looking at the numbers, it clear that if you can reliabaly hit the links the ex.hhs combo is definately worth the meter. 123 extra damage for one bars is almost equal to a raw ex.hb (140). If you miss the c.lp link the chip damage from the last hp.hhs still makes it worth the meter at 58 DPB. The ex.hhs also sets up a nice mix-up. Yes your opponent can mash revesals to punish you if you miss the link but thats always been apart of SF4 and you should be more than capable of baiting and punishing opponents who are prone to the type of gameplay.
Now to run the numbers on the various character specific combos that use meter. I won’t list what works on who because I did that over a years ago and others have updated and added to that list since AE came out.

c.lp xx hp.hhs, c.mk xx EX.hb 307 / 82 DPB
c.lp xx hp.hhs, ex.bs 289 / 64 DPB (Deejay, Guile, Boxer, Juri)
c.lp xx hp.hhs, c.lp xx EX.bs 303 / 78 DPB (Abel)
**c.lp xx hp.hhs, c.lp xx EX.hb 275 / 50 DPB (Dict) **
c.lp xx hp.hhs, ex.hhs, c.lp xx hp.hhs, ex.bs 438 / 107 DPB (Juri)

Then there are EX.hhs, c.lp xx EX.BS Combos. I have never been a fan of this combo. The hard part of this combo is the c.lp link. If you can hit the link, doing another ex.hhs loop will always do more damage and build back more meter than ending in ex.bs. The combo by itself is not a waste of meter 84 DPB if compared to the standard BnB. But if you compare it to just using hp.hhs after the ex.hhs the additional bar is only getting 45 DPB.

c.lp xx hp.hhs, ex.hhs, c.lp xx ex.bs 393 / 84 DPB

If you are FADC’ing out of HHS combos that hit you are wasting meter. It’s literally the worst waste of meter you can have unless your post-oichio mix-ups net you so much damage that it’s worth throwing away 2 bars. This is not to be confused with FADC’ing out of blocked hhs. In that case you are using two bars for the chance to get 160- 180 damage. But FADC’ing out of hhs on hit nets you very little damage.

c.lp xx hp.hhs xx FADC reset hp.oichio 280 / 28 DPB

Even worse than the 28 DPB, if you are one of those Honda’s (like myself) who always use lp.oichio’s without thinking the damage drops by 20 points and you are getting 17 DPB. You also have the problem that hhs FADC oichio is not a new trick any more. Against player with lots of Honda experience they are jumping out of and punishing this trick at a very high rate.

Hopefully this can help those wondering about whether certain combos are worth the meter they use. I welcome the discussion with those who have a different point of view.

502

its in the description of the video ya at or around the 7th hit i begin my next piano

503

I never noticed it before but in AE, hp.hhs has special scaling. Instead of the usual 100, 100, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 10… ; hp.hhs scales 100, 100, 80, 73, 60, 53, 40, 33, 20, 13, 10 … The scaling only effects hp.hhs and it’s extended hits. lp, mp, and ex don’t have this scaling.

The difference is only 1-3 damage so I don’t know why the weird scaling. It doesn’t change the damage nerf to hp.hhs. The only other example of this weird scaling is DJ’s MGU which has weird scaling on the extra hits and DJ’s U1 which has weird scaling on the last hit.

504

What does RH mean??

505

RH = Round house, which is heavy kick. It’s a habit for people who played SFII in the arcade era were the buttons were labeled jab, strong, fierce for punches and short, forward, round house for kicks.

506

Thanks. It’s kinda odd why don’t people just call it HK

507

Lol what a noob…cause that’s what we been calliing it for 20 years! We’re not gonna change for you!

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

508

Cause Round House sounds more awesome than Heavy Kick and Fierce sounds better than HP.

509

I think its more than that, its about not getting it confused while saying/typing less. You can read light/medium/heavy/light/heavy and wonder what buttons it means? Jab/strong/fierce/jab/fierce and more people know what you’re talking about. And personally, the more we can make the world get away from acronym hell the better. Laughing Out Loud.

510

It’s been called jab/strong/fierce and short/forward/roundhouse instead of light/medium/heavy punch/kick since the SFII days. Either is fine. Ignore the elitists.

511

sorry but can someone point me to the character specific combos?

512

Check the last couple of pages, they are mostly there, c’mon it’s not that hard to find them, jewelman, telepathic, stev0 and me among others have posted many.

513

Sorry for the double post, but I think I found a glitch(hopefully training mode only):

[media=youtube]lC-m2esE6E0[/media]

I recorded Honda doing one of the trials(j.HK, c.MK xx EX hands, c.LP xx EX buttslam) and I tried to playback it. First time it worked fine, just as when I recorded it. The next time and every other time afterwards, the 1 frame link wouldn’t work. The combo would only work once after a restart. I tried switching characters and it was the same. WTF???

We tried another phone camera… is it better?

Also that combo doesn’t work on Makoto and Blanka, every other standing character is fair game.

EDIT: I just embedded the vid.

514

[media=youtube]mihgcfezifA[/media]

Oh my god, it really is possible to link to u1! @ 0:54

We need a breakdown of this, like right now

And check out 1:39 in the video, its a corner combo for jab hhs, jab ex hhsx4, jab hhs x4, roundhouse… wtf!

515

I saw that and wondered the same thing. Is like an extended hp.HHS that can link to it?

516

Its a setup that allows you to connect with the last hit of the mashed out HHS which leaves honda at +12 therefore you can combo into ultra. Ive tried in training mode but for the life of me i can’t get it to work.

The crazy extended non ex hhs combos are fairly straightforward tho.

517

After a session in Super training mode(yeah, I still don’t have the game, lol) I can say that it’s easier than it looks. I want to wait until I can try it on my friend’s AE, but right now I can confirm that it works using almost any jumping(crossup or not) attack and normal leading into the extended MP hands. The most damaging setup I found was nj.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, extended MP hands, Ultra 1 for 541 dmg IN SUPER(my calculations are that it should do 575-580 dmg in AE due to MP hands “buff”). ALL ON A CROUCHING ABEL ONLY. I’ve tried some other characters(not everyone tho) and I could only get a s.HK to work at most in a couple chars like blanka, but nothing more. Seems like a 2 framer to me, altho I’m used to plink the ultra so I don’t know, might be a 1 framer due to the last hit being a meaty plus Abel’s crouching hurtbox + weird hurting animation. If anyone is interested I can make a vid but it’s really easier than it looks, there’s no need to have a special positioning like I thought at first when watching the video, seems like the last hit of the extended MP hands gets him everytime.

PS: stev0, maybe you were trying with HP hands?

518

Yeah i was using hp hands, thanks for the tip mate.

519

Ok, after a quick session yesterday at my friend’s place with AE, I found out some numbers and something I missed the first time: you have to do MP EXTENDED HANDS. Seems like every extended hands executed with a different button(LP, MP, HP) has its own version, much like Chun li’s legs, so you can start hands with a punch and then switch to another punch to get its extended version. So in Abel’s case, MP hands into LP ex.hands will whiff and MP hands into HP ex.hands will make it hit but not with the final +12 hit. Which means there might be some more combo vid stuff hidden in there somewhere. Anyway, to get the linked U1 as seen on the vid only MP hands into ex.hands(extended hands, from now on) works(crouching Abel only). Finally, you can also link HP hands(for 2 hits or into super), MP, HP and EX headbutt and super. I used HP super in most combos but any version will do, so that means you can even piano the super to make it easier.

ABEL(crouching): ordered by damage:
c.LK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP headbutt: 268dmg
nj.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP hands(2 hits): 342dmg
nj.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP headbutt: 408dmg
c.LK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 439dmg
(crossup) j.MK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 489dmg
j.HK, c.LK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 496dmg
naked MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP super: **500dmg (full meter)
c.LP xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 514dmg
j,HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, super: **518dmg ****(full meter)
j,HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 533dmg
naked MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 537dmg
(crossup) j.MK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 539dmg
nj.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP hands(2 hits) xx HP super: **542dmg **(full meter)
j.HP, MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP super: **548dmg **(full meter)
j.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 559dmg
nj.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP super: **564dmg **(full meter)
nj.HK, c,MK xx EX hands, c.LP xx EX hands, c.LP xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 571dmg (2 levels, 32 hits!)
j.HP, MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 574dmg
nj.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 577dmg
nj.HK, MP hands, ext.MP hands, HP super: **578dmg **(full meter)
nj.HK, c,MK xx EX hands, c.LP xx MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 586dmg (1 level)
nj.HK, MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 602dmg
Not bad at all, now if it only worked in some more characters and not only crouching Abel…

And here’s a video with some of these combos via youtube. We(my friend, the AE proud owner and me) tried with yet another camera, at least there are no scanlines now(or they are not as bad as before), quality is worse than other vids, sorry about that. Due to the setup we used, the phone’s mic was covered when we recorded the combos so there’s almost no sound. At least it was worth to learn to piano into MP hands back when we heard about its “buff” in AE. Finally, I didn’t use turbo(can’t piano with it)… which now I regret because my hand hurts :frowning:

The forum “hiccup” removed my last edit… more characters below

EDIT: Added a couple of EX hands combos.

520

More characters the extended hands combo into:

BLANKA(standing): The +12 hit won’t connect but the second-to-last hit will. You can use standing or crouching LP:

  • s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, s.HK: 268dmg
  • s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, s.HK: 278dmg
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 324dmg
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, s.HK: 348dmg
  • nj.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, s.HK: 368dmg
  • Focus Attack lvl 2, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 428dmg (full meter)
  • Focus Attack lvl 3, s.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 496dmg (full meter)
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 515dmg (full meter)
  • nj.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 535dmg (full meter)

HAKAN(standing): Same as Blanka, no +12 for him either. Can use standing and crouching LP too. The c.MK setup is inconsistent unless it’s used after a focus, but you have to be right next to Hakan after the FADC.

  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 281dmg
  • crossup j.MK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 295dmg, 241dmg without the j.MK
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 315dmg, 241dmg without the j.HK
  • nj.HP, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 321dmg, 241dmg without the j.HK
  • Focus Attack lvl 2, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 436dmg (full meter)
  • Focus Attack lvl 2, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 468dmg (full meter)
  • crossup j.MK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 495dmg (full meter), 481dmg without the j.MK
  • Focus Attack lvl 3, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 496dmg (full meter)
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 515dmg (full meter), 481dmg without the j.HK
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: **521dmg **(full meter)
  • Focus Attack lvl 3, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 528dmg (full meter)
  • nj.HP, MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: 561dmg (full meter)

ZANGIEF(standing): The +12 hit will combo but his hurtbox prevents the U1 from comboing unless the c.MK setup is used(but it’s a 1 frame link). Super is fair game with any setup tho. Good positioning is key to get the +12 hit.

  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 314dmg, 242dmg without the j.HK
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, EX headbutt: 362dmg (1 meter), 296dmgwithout the j.HK
  • Focus Attack lvl 2, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 488dmg
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: 518dmg (full meter), 478dmg without the j.HK
  • Blocked EX Green Hand, reversal MP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 537dmg
  • Focus Attack lvl 3, walk forwards, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 548dmg
  • j.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands, super: 555dmg (full meter), 521dmgwithout the j.HK
  • j.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: 568dmg (full meter), 528dmg without the j.HK
  • j.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 583dmg, 554dmg without the j.HK

EL FUERTE(standing): Consistent setup overall but U1 feels like a 1 frame link most of the times because after the ext.MP hands he’s too far away. Super is still easier to combo into. In case you missed it, all his setups require to cancel HP hands into MP extended hands.

  • j.HK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, HP hands: 294dmg, 215dmg without the j.HK
  • j.HK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, EX headbutt: 360dmg (1 meter), 291dmg without the j.HK
  • Focus Attack lvl 2, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 449dmg
  • j.HK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, HP hands xx super: 485dmg (full meter), 444dmgwithout the j.HK
  • Focus Attack lvl 3, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 508dmg
  • crossup j.MK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 509dmg
  • j.HK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, super: 516dmg (full meter), 473dmg without the j.HK
  • j.HK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 528dmg, 499dmg without the j.HK
  • nj.HK, s.LP xx HP hands, ext.MP hands, U1: 548dmg

T. HAWK(crouching): Again, positioning is key here. The crossup into c.LP setup works 100% of the time, the s.MP setup requires a jumping attack to be reliable and the c.MK setup is tricky because it requires a slight delay in the c.Mk into MP hands cancel or to be a pixel away and even then it won’t work all the time. The s.LP setup also needs you to be a bit away.

  • s.LP xx MP hands, ext. LP hands, HP hands: 241dmg
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 281dmg
  • crossup j.MK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 295dmg
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 305dmg
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP headbutt: 346dmg
  • crossup j.MK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP headbutt: 352dmg
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP headbutt: 362dmg
  • s.LP xx MP hands, ext. LP hands, HP hands xx super: **470dmg **(full meter)
  • crossup j.MK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: **495dmg **(full meter)
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: **505dmg **(full meter)
  • s.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: **488dmg **(full meter)
  • crossup j.MK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: **508dmg **(full meter)
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: **518dmg **(full meter)
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: **521dmg **(full meter)
  • crossup j.MK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 523dmg
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: **528dmg **(full meter)
  • j.HK, s.MP(1 hit) xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 533dmg
  • nj.HK, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 563dmg
  • j.HK, c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 583dmg, 554dmg without the j.HK

T. HAWK(standing): God bless his arm’s hurtbox! Clearly the most viable setups of them all(easy+consistent+useful), you can use standing or crouching LP(or even standing/crouching LK) indistinctively and you will always ge the magic +12 hit. The crouching MK setup is way too inconsistent and it’s only listed for the sake of completeness.

  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 292dmg
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands: 324dmg, 252dmg without the j.HK
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP headbutt: 346dmg
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP headbutt: 372dmg, 306dmg without the j.HK
  • Focus Attack lvl 2, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 456dmg
  • Focus Attack lvl 3, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 516dmg
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: **521dmg **(full meter)
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, HP hands xx super: **524dmg **(full meter), **481dmg **without the j.HK
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: **528dmg **(full meter)
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, super: **528dmg **(full meter), 488dmg without the j.HK
  • j.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 543dmg, 514dmg without the j.HK
  • j.HK, c.MK xx EX hands, c.LP xx EX hands, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 551dmg (2 meters, 32 hits!)
  • j.HP, s.LP xx EX hands, c.LP xx EX hands, c.LP xx EX hands, c.LP xx EX hands, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 553dmg (48 hits, full meter)
  • c.MK xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 554dmg
  • nj.HK, s/c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: 563dmg
  • j.HK, c.MK xx EX hands, c.LP xx MP hands, ext. MP hands, U1: **584dmg **(1 meter)

My friend is right, I guess it’s time for me to buy the damn game :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT: Added a couple of EX hands combos.

EDIT 2: Added some of the combos that are in the vid I posted below, like the T. Hawk 48 hit combo(post #524).

EDIT 3: Added Hakan.