@devil jin
You do realize that Ibuki and Viper both have amazing mobility and intensely strong mix up games? Seeing as we’re speaking theoretically, with them taking out tk jks, Adon has neither of those and no safe way to inflict chip damage. I’d say he deserves to not be safe jumped.
If these nerfs go through, Adon will be the most boring, one dimensional character in the game. Gameplan: Turtle. St. Hk. AA… Guile without sonic booms would be more entertaining.
I doubt they’re taking out tk jks. If anything they might be making the input a bit stricter for them or something but I doubt they are going to go away. Adon has pretty amazing mobility if u ask me. He can retreat to the far end of the screen in an instant or get in your face in nearly an instant. Adon has a much quicker jump than both of them which I think is really great for continuing pressure after cross ups and allows him to close the gap more naturally than either Ibuki or Viper. Their wake up mix up games may be a bit stronger but they both arguably have to work harder to actually get in than Adon does. Especially Ibuki. Ibuki has great mix up once she gets in but she has to work hard as hell to get in unless the opponent throws a laggy fireball. She doesn’t have anything to instantly close the gap against a good defensive character/playstyle. Which I guess is her play style in a nutshell. Struggle to get in but mess them up nicely once you get in.
I’m sure Adon’s mix up game isn’t quite as good as Ibuki’s or Viper’s but it’s not like they have a super safe gameplan either. Viper’s mix up/offense is full of gaps where basically if u know what Viper is going to do next her whole gameplan is ruined. Viper’s mix up is based pretty much entirely on hoping u don’t know what she’s going to do. None of it is really anything close to safe unless she forces u to block something (that had terribly long start up). I will give it to you that Viper’s mix up pays off much better than Adon’s damage wise though. Ibuki’s mix up game is pretty much only worth talking about at all if she sets you up for a reset or knocks u down. Ibuki basically has almost no mix up game specifically unless she knocks u down. All of the mixups she can do to you while you are standing are pretty easy to react to minus maybe LK hien (penguin kick) to super but even that forces u to waste a super for a near 50/50 mix up.
I still think Adon’s great speed and fundamentals for a fast mix up based character is a solid mix that most other mix up based characters can’t quite say they have. Most fast mix up types get shit on with sub par footsies/buttons though Adon gets really solid buttons and hit confirms to go along with his mix up/bait game.
With the added difference that I wasn’t using babelfish.
Wait, tk jks are the only way to apply safe pressure? What about, oh, I dunno…regular jag kick? Gamerbee does it to great effect.
Indeed. I barely see Gamerbee pull off IAJKs in the videos with input display. I only ever see him do AJKs when falling from a jump (neutral or forward), or right after a neutral j.mk.
I actually know 0 characters that NEED instant air moves to be decent.
Cammy doesn’t. Her normal IDK from fullscreen away was more a meter building thing, than a “cr.tech killing” tool. It sucked vs most pokes. Got stuffed. Any top cammy player will guarantee ya that much. Good for meter, not usable anywhere else.
Cviper doesn’t. Useful, but she can do without those.
Gouki’s instant air fireball is awesome for those crazy crossups. But really… He has enough options as it is. Wouldn’t kill him if he lost that one.
Ibuki, same as above.
Dhalsim can do without instant air teleports too. It’s a big tool of his though. Probably the one where it makes the biggest difference to be honest… But fuck it. The character is good as it is. If he lost it, it wouldn’t be THAT bad.
Makoto’s situation is similar to Adon’s, except those low height tsurugis make a big difference to her. Still, I think that pulling them off a wee bit later in the air, or when falling, still makes them good. Kinda like their use in 3S.
Juri’s are unsafe and quite shitty. Not important.
really, I havent got time now, but ive seen him quite a few times pull off IAJK’s.
I would also go so far as to say they are quite matchup dependant. I mean an IAJK makes the guile matchup much easier and ive only just started using IAJK’s. Fits great against fireball throwers due to the fact that mk.jk doesnt exactly come out fast.
edit: here we go he does two before the 1:07 mark and both are done at the beginning of the 2nd round. I havent got time to watch it all however
http://www.youtube.com/user/smoai#p/c/C71A1A51A57DFE68/55/URfDeW0asww
edit 2: infact he then goes on to use it again use it to combo at about the 1:30 mark.
This is all in 1 round mind you, and goodness knows how many more times he probably uses them. I am sure he could win without them but he does use them a fair bit.
None of those were IAJK. None. (wrong)
And the last one is a meaty HK Jaguar Tooth on eita’s wakeup. If he hits on the last frame or so, that’s +6 frame advantage mate. That’s how he combo’d after. (I just found out I’m wrong, but I’ll leave this here anyway)
(Wrong wrong wrong)
EDIT: I was wrong because I forgot he doesn’t yell Jaguar Tooth in the air. He just screeches. But yeah… Gamerbee pulls them all off the easy way… 9/8 and then 214. U/UF and then QCB. The other way around is way too strict because the height limit is not as low as cammy’s. Most characters have that height limit too high to pull off the typical “buffer on the ground, jump after” way.
mk.jk also has a lot more recovery than IAJK, so if you do that just to hop over projectiles, and it doesn’t hit/block your way vulnerable.
And JK’s are NOT safe, I’ve seen some Japanese replays when the person reacts to them with an ultra or DP and it ends up costing the round/match.
Firstly, neither tk jks or grounded jks are safe to end blockstrings with. However, a tk is safer because you can change the rhythm that it comes out plus the great reward you get from them by punishing throws, etc… Gamerbee is not that great. I don’t understand the hype over him. Just because he’s the only top player (who was virtually unknown before a few months ago) to pick up Adon doesn’t mean that his method of playing him is the be all end all. Using the grounded jks over tk is only hurting your game or anyone else’s who uses them. I hate coming across scrubby adon players who pick alt gold and spam out ground jks just because gamerbee pulled it off. Gamerbee could be using tk jks to his advantage greatly by setting up tick throw situations to bait and punish with a tk jk, which I have been doing for months now along with backthrow cross up tricks, which he never does. He’s playing Adon like I did the first week of using him and has evolved an all around solid game with that, but if he wanted to be better he would add more to his gameplay. Adon has much more depth than grounded jks and cross ups and it’s too bad that they’re thinking about taking out the only two things that make him unique.
Also @ devil jin
Those moves that take him across the screen are extremely punishable and mostly useless to do. His faster jump is a great scrub killer, but any good player isn’t going to let you put them in some silly cross up trap. They’re going to reversal you. I see where you’re coming from not having played Adon, but I think if you actually played him you’d see most of his stuff is easily avoidable gimmicks.
This reminds me of when all of the scrubby gen players wanted mk xx hands out of the game because it wasn’t “gen” when the real reason behind it is that they don’t have the motivation to learn.
Why not do ground jag kicks? The mk and hk versions are essentially safe on block, plus they trade with everything at the tip. You can’t spam them and expect magic to happen, but applying long range pressure with the mk version and hk version are solid ways of getting chip and maybe doing big damage off a counterhit. If a character can’t handle the jag kick, why start doing gimmicky shit like whiffing air jag kicks on back throw and stuff like that when you can just win on footsies and well spaced jag kicks?
Did jag kicks rape your mother, by chance? 'Cause you seem to hate them, alot…
Gimmicky shit like whiffing air jag kicks (tk jks) on back throw? Do you know how vitally this helps against charge characters and reversals in general? Are you a fool? Why rely on a grounded jk while hoping for the ch when doing the tk version will allow a follow up on hit regardless? Can you set up crouch tech and throw whiff punishes off grounded jks? It sounds more like you haven’t taken the time to learn tk jks or you would know how beneficial they can be. The only version of grounded jks I use is the hk version, the other two can be replaced by tk jks for better spacing and traps. You’re such an idiot to bring footsies into the equation. Any good Adon player can tell you tk lk jk is a HUGE part of his footsies game. Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? You do realize that a lk tk jk shuts down cr. mk and nearly any other poke in the game? This then leads to an UNTECHABLE knockdown, super, cr. lk xx rj (ex rj for crouch) and even ultra in some cases. Then add in how great of a fireball punisher it is, you would have to be a complete moron to use grounded over tk.
Of course I use tk jag kick, all the time against Guile, for example. I love the move, and I know it’s solid. However, I don’t see the need to use it over the mk jag kick or even the lk one when the air ones when I could just use the easier to due ground ones, be essentially unpunishable on block and right in their face for another attack, or even trade, since odds are I’ll probably be doing more damage with the higher priority of the ground ones. Plus, he goes up and over low pokes with the ground ones also, so there’s that. You can combo off of air ones, so they have that going for them, and that’s fine, but I’d rather use ground ones. When I have to alter my jump arc, which is frequently, I’ll use air jag kick, and it’ll probably work.
To be more on topic, I’ll say that fixing his wake up isn’t that bad. His DP, while totally safe jumpable, is still a good anti-air in and of itself, and while we might have to block more on wakeup, it’s not something crippling to Adon’s game.
You obviously know how this game works VERY WELL. you would obviously prefer do a move full screen away and pray they don’t react to obviously follow it up with the oh so obvious ie: throw, short, cross up, etc. Which they can see coming and you would also obviously do chip damage with the chance to NOT combo if the move hot them.
Yo, I’m pretty sure the arguement is over and you won bro. DEAR CAPCOM: you can do as you like with TK JKs since they’re trash.
@Greg: I’m pretty sure there’s nothing else that you can say Greg that will prove him wrong at this point, since he obviously knows how to play this game.
Ouch. All I was saying was that if I was in range to do ground ones over air ones, I’d totally do it. The air jag kick is definitely not trash, and I don’t think they said it’s removed. However, if there’s a height requirement, then I don’t think it’s a huge, huge loss.
Anyone else wondering what they j.mk thing is about in the Wiki?
greglife: For the love of god stop posting, you’re embarrasing.
For the rest: Why use iAJK?
Better frames
Safer on whiff, much safer.
Goes better over fireballs, try to go over the slower ones with MK JK, not easy.
Can punish techers (hard to time)
Alters the rythm.
Fucking deadly in the corner.
Why NOT use iAJK:
Less chip (ground JK chip is huge)
Worse, smaller hitbox
Easy to fuck up, takes time to get consistent
No reason to use in a place where ground JK will do the job
All jagkicks have their uses. Ground MK and HK are the most important ones but others have their uses.
You can’t react to a MK or LK jaguar kick not done at max distance. It hits at multiple spots during the animation, if you’re not at max range they cannot react to it. If you’re at max range they are easy to bait with lk iAJK.
Yes, if they alter the height requirement iAJK will become virtually useless. Fact. Not saying they did tho. There is already a height requirement so chances are the person fucked up.
Ribxus: discovering in awe that gamerbee uses 9214 to do iAJK. No duh, we spent a couple pages almost giving math detail as to why that metod was a hundred times better than 2149, just read the iAJK thread. If you’re gonna talk about air jaguar kicks, you’re talking about 9214k
Not worried about it. Even if Adon gets nerfed to trash I will still play him because he’s my favorite character. And I will make all weep for underestimating him.
haha well said. even so it sucks to get nerfs when they are not needed.
@TVG well said on the iAJK’s.
Also @whoeever(cba going back then forward) thanks for recognising that the link I posted was correct in the first place. I personally never TK my AJK’s, I read the huge amount of pages that TVG mentioned 
Thinking that 9214 is the correct way to do tk jag kicks is what’s embarrassing. Technical limitations is also a horrible reason to say not to use tk jks, seeing as how if you have the drive and motivation to learn them to 100 % as I do, then you will soon see how useless any version of grounded jk is other than hk version.
This argument is so redundant… it all boils down to the people who are saying to use lk and mk grounded jks over tk air jks are terrible at the game and they don’t want to put in the extra effort to evolve their game. They would rather say “oh gamerbee this gamerbee that” guess what? Gamerbee isn’t that great. He placed well at evo because NO ONE had been exposed to a decent Adon. That’s the bottom line. He’s a good player and has solid fundamentals, but he isn’t the pinnacle of all adon can be. You sound like such a moron in your post. Oh yeah IF timed correctly it’s okay to punish crouch techs… How the fuck are you guys playing Adon? Isn’t this what he’s all about? Tricking the opponent? Trapping them into making mistakes? Damn, I guess I need to revert back to the old cr. lk. cr. lp cr. mp xx mk jk blockstring and using jag tooth, I’ve been doing it wrong, how embarrassing…
Yeah, it’s quite obvious that we’ve all been doing it wrong. I’m glad that these top players have really opened my eyes to the depth that adon has to offer.
“wake up time faster” make him unique? THIS IS PLAIN BULLSHIT!
allowing him to wake up so fast so he can escape almost all situation is easily better than teleport or any evasive move. free get out of jail card much?
better then ex pc, better than akuma teleport.
its not a get out of jail free card. if you predict it, its a free big punish for the opponent. Not fucking fail proof.