Can you explain why is it needed to kara-cancel anything when performing, say, aerial fierce, cr.short xx hadouken, or close crouching strong, (link) cr.short xx hadouken or close crouching short xx hadouken?
Not only are you posting in the wrong thread, but you’ve already answered your own question. “Cuz it doesn’t combo.” Kara cancelling bypasses the combo lockout.
After some testing, it appears that the +5 MP/MK and +10 HP/HK bonus to crouching characters only applies to aerial attacks. Standing attacks on crouching characters don’t make a difference. That’s my bad but I don’t see that specification mentioned in the blurb.
In fact, it seems the crouching bonus doesn’t apply to anything else, including special normals. However, special normals have their own bizarre stun rates; it really is totally variant depending on the move itself as YBH claims. There’s not even a general rule you could make.
For example (a few moves I tested), Ryu’s f.MP does 11 frames stun on standing or blocking opponents but 20 frames stun on crouching opponents. On the other hand, Ryu’s f.HP does 20 frames hitstun/blockstun on standing and crouching opponents. As for Ken’s overhead, it does 20 frames hitstun/blockstun on standing opponents and also 20 frames hitstun on crouching opponents.
By the way, I tested on the Asian version of HSF2 in WinKawaks through frame stepping on turbo 0. It’s not perfect but most numbers match up. The problem with arcade ST is that its lowest speed is US T0 / JP T1, which still has frame skipping. I’m thinking now that T.Akiba did all his testing on T0 of the DC version (which he mentions using for the safe jump frame tests).
I thought you were translating the YBH text, or did I misunderstand?
I was, but I found it hard to believe that the note for the crouching hitstun bonus applied to all attacks. So I had to try it out for myself and as it turns out, it only affects aerial attacks.
So, is this how it is now?:
Standing/Crouching Normal Attacks vs a crouching opponent:
Light Normal Attacks = 11 frames of hitstun/blockstun
Medium Normal Attacks = 16 frames of hitstun/blockstun
Hard Normal Attacks = 20 frames of hitstun/blockstun
Jumping Normal Attacks vs a crouching opponent:
Light Normal Attacks = 11 frames of hitstun
Medium Normal Attacks = 21 frames of hitstun
Hard Normal Attacks = 30 frames of hitstun
Ryu’s Overhead vs a standing opponent = 11 frames of hitstun/blockstun
Ryu’s Overhead vs a crouching opponent = 20 frames of hitstun
Ryu’s Rushing Fierce vs a standing/crouching opponent = 20 frames of hitstun/blockstun
Ken’s Overhead vs a standing/crouching opponent = 20 frames of hitstun/blockstun
Yeah, everything else is right but it seems I didn’t make myself clear on this issue. It’s just +5 and +10 on top of the 11 frame default aerial hitstun. That adds up to a (11)/(11+5)/(11+10) distribution for aerial vs. crouching.
I’m not sure whether that’s equivalent to the normal 11/16/20 distribution for ground attacks but 1 frame is too minimal for me to tell the difference. So if you want to follow YBH to the letter, it would be 11/16/21.
Ok, cool. I updated the 1st post. Thanks for all your efforts and tests Ganelon. Instead of waiting for the more people to translate the YBH, why not just capture the Super Attack and Command Normal frame data yourself using HSF2 in WinKawaks? It may not be 100% accurate, but even 95% accurate is good enough for me. At the very least, we will have some frame of reference (pun intended) once the other YBH translations come in. If not, that’s cool too. At least we already have SOME overhead info that YBH doesn’t. :party:
To anyone that’s been following this thread, I understand that you’re frustrated with the constantly changing info. I am too, but considering ST is over 14 yrs old and no one has attempted creating a list of hitstun/blockstun frame data until now, you can understand the reason why. This data can be really confusing. But it’s important that we at least attempt to compile it. Otherwise other data like frame advantages could not be calculated without it. Thanks for all your patience. :china:
It’s been a fun ride, but essentially we’re back at the 11/16/20 pattern that we started with 
Haha, yep. Now just gotta wait till we get a translation or till nohoho or NKI get some free time.
Well, if I had a lot of free time and could use the frame data in some way, I would. That’s why I didn’t create this topic. You or anyone else here is free to carry the torch though. :china:
Anyway, I’m not sure what additional YBH translation people are waiting for. There’s more info but it doesn’t appear to factor into calculating frame data. If anybody has questions or doubts, why not just test it yourself? You can see how the numbers add up. And if you want special normal or super info, you’ll definitely have to determine it yourself since as I’ve said and shown, there’s no info in YBH on that.
Ok, we’re set then. Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread.:party::china:
I’ve been going through and collecting HDR data with a video capture device. It’s slow going though, and I haven’t been testing hitstun/blockstun.
More details of your methodology would help. What data are you attempting to capture, what system are you using (XBOX, PS3), etc, etc. Don’t leave any details out.
XBox 360 Currently I’m working on hitboxes stuff like:
http://kayin.pyoko.org/hitboxes/
I’m also collecting frame counts, but those aren’t on that site.
The video capture device is a Canopus ADVC 100, which doesn’t drop frames.
I edit with Kino, which provides a way to generate images from both the upper
and lower fields – since the canopus is recording 480p signal I need to de-interlace.
Recordings are from practice mode at speed zero with hitboxes on.
Nice, the pics look good. Good work so far. :tup: What site is the frame data on?
Oh, yeah, I forgot - I’m sticking in boxes with gimp.
Frame data isn’t up on the interwebs - just on my local machine. That said, YBH is mostly correct - the errors that I’ve noticed so far are things like 'sim back+strong being listed as having a single block of hitting frames when it has two different hitboxes.
http://kayin.pyoko.org/hitboxes/sim/fastrong3.png
http://kayin.pyoko.org/hitboxes/sim/fastrong4.png
No no no no no… oldschool_BR is absolutely right, blitz. The first hit of a Combo actually DOES cause longer hit stun on characters with certain moves.
I’ve actually done a Crouch Short, Crouch Roundhouse link with Ryu before. But if you do Crouch Short x 2, you will NEVER EVER EVER EVER be able to link Crouch Roundhouse.
I don’t know if it’s just the light attacks, but there is definitely a change in hit stun if light attacks are used as the first hit of the Combo or a later hit. I don’t know if this applies to all moves, though.
- James
You’re right about that combo jchensor. I’ll add that to the “needs to be confirmed” section, but that wasn’t really his question. But yeah, you’re right.