You can find games 1 and 3 along with a little write up of the matches I did in my blog on option-select. Besides that, I took a little time to write down my feelings on the Ryu matchup which you can find on the Cody vs Ryu matchup page. I already felt this way about the matchup before, but playing him basically reinforced the ideas I had about how to approach the matchup.
Heh, I actually played a few Cody mirror matches with Chris on Friday. His Cody is different then mine, and although I don’t agree with some of the stuff he does, there were a few things he did against me that I used to think were weak, but after having them done to me, are actually much trickier then I thought, and I might start implementing them into my game, although in very small doses.
About Honda vs Cody though, I wouldn’t have recommended it to him, to be honest. That matchup is not free by any means. It might look like Cody wins it on paper, but that’s because on paper, people don’t make mistakes in judgement. All it takes is one misplaced Rock that Honda jumps, and all the work you’ve been doing for the last 20+ seconds becomes wasted. You can hit him with several Rocks and s.HKs, but all he needs is one jump in combo to do that much damage, and be inside.
Also, you can only punish MP and HP Headbutts with Ultra, which are unimportant. EX Headbutt is still a major problem and must be baited with a jump back to get a real punish. This is obviously risky because you lose your entire momentum if the headbutt doesn’t come when you jump back.
The only thing I like about that matchup is that back throw destroys Honda. Jump in OS EX Zonk beats every reversal option he has, and once he blocks the jump in, even though the threat of the EX Headbutt is potentially there, you can mix him up fairly well because he has to guess when to EX Headbutt, which can be harder then it sounds if you mixup between j.LK and j.HK off the back throw.
The stuff I don’t agree with is just a matter of play style. I can understand why he does it, but it’s just not the way I play.
The main things I don’t agree with are:
Random HK or MK Ruffians: Sometimes as a poke, Chris will just go for it. I don’t like it because it’s punishable, but I can understand the value in it, because even if they block it and punish it, you’re letting them know you’re not afraid to throw it out there, which forces them to play a little slower within mid screen range.
EX Zonk as a throw bait: I do this every now and then, but I think Chris does it more. He even talked about this in his interview with Keits/Ski after he beat Starnab. He mentioned how at one point during the match, he did t.HK (whiff), then threw, and Starnab teched, so the next time, later, he did t.HK (whiff), then EX Zonk which hit.
In a specific situation like that where you put yourself at frame disadvantage to induce the opponent’s throw, I understand it. The reason I’m not a huge fan of it overall is because I’d rather not even put myself in that position to begin with. t.HK is a fairly risky move to begin with because it will just get beat clean by any low-stance move that hits mid, which is basically any low strong. So if you’re not putting yourself into those situations, then you don’t need EX Zonk as a throw bait, because you should always be at frame advantage up close.
But again, I understand its use, and in all honesty, I should probably use it more, I just hate spending that much meter on it. I should test in training mode to see if I can confirm the hit and only FADC it on block, but I doubt it’s possible.
The thing that I thought was weak, but now I like it a little more is the b.MP mixup Chris uses. He gets a knockdown, and then stays at a slight distance as you’re getting up, and whiffs a b.MP right as you’re about to be up, then does Sweep, Overhead, or Throw. I think against players with good defense, it’s a weak mixup, but the whiffed b.MP is a lot more deceptive then I thought it was. He caught me with this a few times before I started getting used to it, and it made me realize why it’s not as bad as I originally thought.
My main problem with it though, is two things. One, in a lot of situations where he uses it like off a throw, there are other mixups he could be doing instead that are just too good to pass up in my opinion, like just the basic ambiguous jump mixup. Two, even you get them with it, you’re only hitting them for another ~100 damage. On the other hand, if the mixup fails, no matter which option you tried, your offense is over. I’d rather go for a mixup where even if they defend it, I maintain pressure and can go for multiple traps/mixups.
Nah, not tonight :(. I really thought I was gonna be fine by today, but I had a feeling this sickness was gonna linger, so I didn’t commit to it on Monday, and now I’m glad I didn’t. I might have to go see a doctor tomorrow if I don’t feel better when I wake up, because I’m not really getting better at all. I might need some medicine to kick this thing.
i love to put mkruff out there like that as well :razz:
i was just curious to see what you thought, since i see(imo) hu as more of an unorthodox cody like myself, compared to your orthodox/by-the-book cody. not speaking on skills or effectiveness, just playstyles
thanks for the reply man, hope you get well soon :tup:
Playstyle is half of the reason behind the stuff you don’t agree with, mindgames is the other half. You’ve already explained that you know the reasons behind it so I won’t bother to go through those but what separates the best players from the rest is the risk involved in their gameplay, a prime example being Daigo. He will mash DP, which is risky but used to get into the opponents head and show them that your combos and links better be perfect or you’ll get a DP, which travels back to mindgames.
Your playstyle seems more solid and safe and that’s a good thing but in situations where you need to be ‘clutch,’ to win the game, risk will always be involved. During footsies at mid to close range I will do a random EX Ruffian Kick and catch my opponent off guard. It’s risky but it works and the reward you get from it is valuable and this excludes the untechable knockdown, you show your opponent your not afraid to take risks and that they need to be cautious when approaching.
So although you do disagree with Chris Hus options I do believe they add that element of surprise to his Cody and the opponent. By all means play solid and safe if no risks need to be taken but limiting your offence and defence just because you don’t want to take a risk can decide whether you win or lose the game.
i remember reading somewhere about zonks comboability being dependant on charge times, but you can combo a zonk from HP no matter how long you have held the zonk.
I just retested it, because everyone saying it was punishable made me doubt myself, but no, it is not. It’s -8 on block, but it also leaves Honda half the screen away. U2 is only 7f startup point blank. Beyond point blank, the dust takes time to travel outwards, which makes the startup longer.
I tried every possible situation, midcreen EX headbutt blocked crouching/standing, and point blank EX headbutt, blocked crouching and standing. I was never able to punish with U2. If you guys have some way of doing this, please let me know, cause I’d love for it to work, lol.
I tested it out aswell and wasn’t abel to punish it at all. so we second each other that ex butt is safe vs cody. and 37ventt is either dreaming or has some special for-shizzle-ma-nizzle-magic-trick or our execution sucks, which in my case could be true but is very doubtable in yours.
hey, i’m a bison player and i’m planning to go to a tournament here in cali soon. i’m trying to identify the options every character can use to shut down the EX Psychocrusher as a getaway option on bison’s wakeup. For example, after the knockdown, ryu has jump in OS DP, chun li can downforward roundhouse and kick from behind, and she also has an OS c.hk or s.hk upon jump in.
What are cody’s options to beat this escape option? If you are extra generous, please let me know how you option select/straight up beat EX Devil’s reverse and teleport as well
Short answer: Cody doesn’t need to OS Bison’s wakeup, everything is pretty punishable on reaction, so you basically just safe jump him and block. OSing EX Zonk isn’t really useful because it will avoid EX PC, but then Cody can’t punish, and if Bison does an EX Devil’s Reverse, he can see the EX Zonk, and then move backwards into a position to actually punish the Zonk with the Reverse. So again, better to just safe jump and block, rather then OS something.
Since you mentioned it first, to start with, EX PC. Cody can punish with U2 after blocking it point blank. He has to time it non-reversal, though, otherwise he’ll hit Bison out of the air, so it takes a few minutes in training mode to learn the timing. Without Ultra, Cody can still punish it with EX RK (reversal timing) after blocking point blank.
Against a reversal Headstomp or Devil’s Reverse, both can be beaten by b.MP, though timing is fairly tight (but not at all unreasonable) to beat the Headstomp. Devil’s Reverse can also be beaten by other things like Zonk, and I think also c.MK, so overall, it’s pretty weak against Cody. Additionally, if Bison does the Reverse to escape pressure, then holds backwards with the attack portion to simply escape, I’m pretty sure Cody can punish by dashing forward once or twice into EX RK or U2, but don’t quote me on that, I need to check it.
Against Teleport, obviously U2 or any RK will punish that, though honestly, it’s probably your best bet, because it requires the fastest reaction time to punish if the Cody is safe jumping and not OSing. I’m pretty sure t.HK will reach far enough to punish it as well, which is a much easier move to react with then RK or Ultra (because of the inputs), but I’d need to test that as well.
I haven’t really taken the time to test the things I mentioned because basically, I only play bad Bisons, and every bad Bison thinks EX PC is god’s gift to street fighter, and don’t use any other reversal options. So I’m actually glad you brought this up, because now that we’re talking about it, I’m gonna test it next time I have the game on.
Edit: Got me interested enough to turn my game on, lmao. Ok, here’s some more detail on the stuff I was unsure of.
First off, I had no idea that if you OS U2 on a deep jump in, it will beat EX PC clean, while Bison is still on the ground, and you get the full animation. I thought Bison was considered airborn way faster then he actually is.
EX Devil’s Reverse: Even if Bison holds back the entire time, he can’t get far enough away to make this safe. Cody can dash once on reaction to the Reverse, and then Ultra or EX RK Bison as he comes down. If Bison moves back slightly, but not all the way, he can make it so when Cody dashes, he’s directly above him, so when the Ultra activates, Bison can still float back to the other side, but if Cody EX RKs, they’ll just both be safe.
EX Headstomp: b.MP is a little easier then I thought against this. I knew I had done it plenty of times, but I assumed the timing was tight because the Headstomp has a crazy strong hitbox. Now that I see it in training mode, I see that it’s 100% free to b.MP, very little timing required. If Cody blocks the Headstomp for some reason though, Bison can hold back and get across the screen way faster then Cody can dash up to punish, so that’s safe.
Also note that the Skull Diver followup is 100% free to b.MP as well. Though again, there’s really no reason Cody should block the Headstomp to begin with.
Upon seeing the EX Reverse/Stomp, Cody can b.MP with the timing that assumes it’s a Headstomp, and still have time to dash -> Ultra if it whiffs due to it being a Reverse, and not a Headstomp. This timing is extremely tight however, if the Reverse is activated as soon as possible, so it might not be worth going for, if Cody isn’t sure it will hit. Also, if the Reverse is activated as soon as possible, without Ultra, Cody can’t hit it with an EX RK if he’s already attempted the b.MP assuming it was a Headstomp.
So overall, that’s the bad news (for you, the Bison player). The good news is, Teleport is…ridiculous.
Basically, if the Teleport isn’t OSed against, it’s gonna be safe. Even when I knew it was coming, significantly decreasing my reaction time, I still couldn’t punish it on reaction with a RK, so to react to it when you aren’t sure it’s coming, is definitely impossible.
But it gets worse.
The timing of this shit is magical. Nothing Cody would normally OS works. OS U2 does not work. It dodges the Dust part of the Ultra, and then Bison recovers before the wrenches part, and can block. Cody can delay his jump in so that the OS U2 comes out later, and then it will work (the last spec of dust catches Bison and the wrenches combo), but with this timing, the Ultra catches an EX PC in the air instead of on the ground… Even if there’s a perfect timing that will work against the Teleport and still catch the EX PC on the ground, it’s not worth it because it would be too hard to get the timing, without a perfect setup for it.
OS EX RK does not work against Teleport either! Not even OS LK RK! Everything is too fast! It reaches Bison when he’s still invincible from the Teleport, and then stops hitting by the time he’s recovering. OS Zonk also does not work because it does not go far enough. Same with OS t.HK. OS LP and MP Bad Stone are barely too slow to work as well, and even though HP Stone works, it’s got too little frame advantage to combo anything afterwards.
And now for the truly depressing part: OS EX Bad Stone works…but then if Cody Ultras afterwards, the Dust hits, and it looks like Bison is clearly in range for the wrench hits…but he’s not. The first one just barely whiffs, and he can block the rest.
But, there is salvation for Cody, yet. Just like when Cody blocks a Blanka Ball, he can buffer the Ultra motion, and then walk forward for a few frames, and then activate the Ultra. Thanks to the extra long hit stun on EX Rocks, it’s still easy to combo, the only hard part is buffering the motion before the walk, but it’s not as hard as it sounds.
Without Ultra, Cody can also see the EX Rocks come out, and then combo into an EX RK for another knockdown, though it’s a little expensive, costing 50% meter. But it is pretty nice damage and stun, and will definitely scare the shit out of the Bison player.
So yeah, now the real tl;dr:
Cody has to choose what to do, based on what he predicts will come. There’s no 1 single OS that beats or is at the very least safe against all of Bison’s options. The two main options seem to be Safe jump vs OS EX BS. I wouldn’t OS U2, because it’s way too risky. EX Headstomp, EX Reverse, Teleport, even backdash all make the Ultra fail. It will really only work against EX PC.
Cody can do the following:
Safe Jump
"Beats" EX PC (U2, EX RK), EX Headstomp (b.MP), EX Reverse (lots of stuff).
“Loses to” Teleport (Cody cannot punish, but both characters are safe), Backdash.
OS EX Bad Stone
Beats Teleport, Backdash, EX Reverse (Cody recovers in time to b.MP, or whatever else if Bison tries to punish the EX Bad Stone)
Loses to EX PC, EX Headstomp
And for the sake of completeness, here are some other options, that beat very specific options:
OS U2
Beats EX PC
Loses to just about everything else
OS Zonk
Avoids EX PC (both characters are safe)
Loses to just about everything else
OS HK RK
Beats EX Reverse, Backdash
Loses to EX PC
Avoids EX Headstomp (both chars are safe)
