Haohmaru cannot dp someone who already jumped over his whirlwind fireball because of recovery, and he has no “hadouken trap”.
-Haohmaru’s catch is in using fireballs without dp, or in using dp without fireballs.
-if his fireball hits, it can be followed with big pursuit, and his dp has invincibility frames in beginning.
-his dp deals little bit of damage as anti-air, and should be used to attack grounded opponent to deal full damage, and make use of invincibility frames. I.e. its not really a true anti-air attack.
-His fireball dissipates before it reaches fullscreen distance, too, so its not really comparable to hadouken.
In comparison,
-Genjuro can dp someone who jumped over weak/short version of his card projectile, but he cannot do so with fullscreen/strong version of that projectile, so he can get away with it by spamming longrange fireballs until opponent gets closer, then spamming short fireballs when opponent is already near, and if opponent jump over those, then he gets dp’ed.
-Charlotte has the “hadouken trap”, because not only she has slow and fast fireballs, she also can delay them before firing, so she can fire fireball when opponent already jumped and is about to land.
Yeah, since SC3 the games have gone downhill. When SC1 came out, it was amazing. SC2 was a lot of fun too, especially with Link in the mix. But the Star Wars characters in SC4 were so random and poorly made, just a way to try and promote The Force Unleashed…
^ok, seriously, these posts have gotten really shallow and terrible. Star wars characters were in SC4. Get over it. It’s not like their presence made the game any worse or better.
Also, its funny that you talk about the inclusion of Link as if he was well designed.
“Fallen from grace”?
Yeah, because soul calibur doesn’t sell.
Right.
Onto a more nerdy note, Sc4 on paper wasn’t a terrible game, especially when compared to the games that the capcom community has obsessed over for years. Now, whether or not it’s fun is up to the person playing it, but i’ve always had more fun with soul than any other 3D series. Except three.
Soul has ALWAYS lacked staying power in competition though. Which does NOT make it a bad game.
I remember when SC3 arcade was first out in Chicago as a test and some of us played it and gave our negative opinions of it. Everyone at the calibur forums gave us shit like we were the ones ruining the series talking bad about it. Seems like our opinions turned into the majority concensus of the series.
If you want to experience that again, you can go to Midway forums, and point some flaws of MK games that should be fixed in future -> and they prepare to be flamed by 12-years old protectors of franchise, image of which you just tried to ruin with constructive criticism. You will hear “MK is da best evar, Tekken sux, SF4 blows, MK is the one and only forever”
This thread has a lack of arguments. I would genuinly like to know why people are of their opinions.
We’ve had enough “I love SC1 and everything else sucks”, “They changed things from SC1, which was bad” and “I’m gay for Hwang”(pun not intended - and, yes Hwang was better than the new dude. But he wasn’t cool enough to warrant dropping a series for). Ya’ll sound like rabid 3s fanboys.
Let’s hear some solid points/examples from people who’s actually at least tried to play the games in tournaments (not couch theory/online warriors), and still dislike the games past SC1. That would be interesting. This is just stupid.
Edit: Because seriously, SC1 is the only soul game I havn’t played(not counting stupid things like the Wii game), since I’ve always had PS and never had a DC. So I can’t imagine what makes it so much better. Which is why I’d like some actual info.
I’m kinda glad I havn’t played it though, since apparently, judging from people’s opinions, my blissful ignorance is the only thing that lets me enjoy this series.
wrong forum for that, Yin. Try 8wayrun if you want educated opinions from a community that plays the game at tourney level. I’m not trying to be a smartass, I’m just saying if I wanted an informative discussion on the SF series, I’d come to this site; for SC I’d go to 8wayrun. I know this particular forum is for all fighting games, but I’d say the majority of the knowledgeable peeps that frequent this site are more likely to have quality input on the SF series.
I just figured that there’d be a reason for all the strong opinions, that everyone was aware of except me. Guess I’ll just have to get SC1 and play it “somehow” and see for myself what the fuss is about. :wonder:
Hanzo is correct, the game probably won’t have the same effect on you as it did everyone else when it was released in '99. The game was gorgeous and visuals like that were unprecedented (with the exception of possibly DOA2, which was pretty damned impressive-looking back then). You can find SC1 in the XBLA. Perhaps you should play Soul Edge first, then play SC1 to try to get an idea of why SC1 is so beloved.
I have played Soul Edge. It’s one of the most played/beloved PSX games of my childhood :wgrin:
That, and Diablo. I mean, the PSX version supported two players on the same console, that was hella fun.
This thread just made me feel like in that episode of Seinfeld where everyone acts like it’s something wrong with his new girlfriend, but he can’t figure out what
Speaking of SB, they should bring back weapons breaking.
just like any game i think ppl enjoy the game more when their character is a “top tier.” Or a useable one at the very least. So I understand if ppl get pissed when certain characters viability changes from series number to series number. But seriously… that nor having bad characters added (yoda DOES have to be the stupidest most useless character addition to a fighting series imo though… and I played SC4 for a while and loved it…) shouldn’t make you HATE a game.
I put it aside for SF4 because the network connection needed to be better to really be playable. SF4 issues online is links while sc4 was simply being able to block correctly.
As for the GAME… I never played 3. It was PS exclusive so I said “fuck that” and didn’t bother. I started with 2, loved it and then went back and played 1. And its a great fighter as well (I had played it a few times in the arcade when I was a little kid too). And I think 4 did a good job in the actual gameplay. And I really liked the different versions of the parries for SC4, but the armor breaks and the gauge were not necessary… and it makes the online irritating to see billions of ugly create-a-chicks and create-a-dudes that you have to play against. And justs opened up a whole new part of gameplay for many of the better characters (and many were hidden even…leading to having to “discover” them which is a cool concept for a fighter) Lovely… you made the hulk. You want a cookie? But its nice for others i guess to have that even though it irritates me.
And other than hilde they didn’t really have a character in the game that busted it so the balance was okay (not as good as sf but still not BAD). And the game was fun to play.
How many ppl actually even played sc4 a considerable amount and THEN says the game sucks? I think most decide that they don’t like it because its not the original. But I’m glad its not otherwise I’d just PLAY the original. Same reason why i don’t get why ppl have kept wanting sf4 to turn into SF3: 4th strike.
and yea… playing an old fighter without having any history of your own in it is going to more than likely lead to a letdown because you will notice the graphics as being “weak” VERY quickly. I mean… I’d probably have trouble liking the old sf games now if I were to just pick it up for the first time after playing sf4 if it weren’t for the fact I have fond memories of things like playing my friends Championship edition machine in his garage or playing the original at my mom’s favorite pizza parlor. But I “think” you can even get a demo? maybe? so you can take a quick peek and see if its something you’d be interested in.
SC3 and SC4 are what you get when you take everything people complained about the series for SC2 and fix them. And evidently a lot of people don’t find that fun. Go figure.
So ignoring balancing issues first. Here are some of the complaints off the top of my head I remember for SC2.
Step-G
SC3->not as good in SC3
SC4->almost non-existent and trying usually gets you happy counter-hit fun times. This resulted in lots of people saying, “STEP FUCKING SUCKS!!!111” when whats really happening is they haven’t fully committed to stepping and thus get hit in the process.
G2
SC3->Sort of fixed but resulted in the greatest shit ever known as G22. Fixed in AE.
SC4->Gone. And no G222 glitch has been found. Yays!
Wakeup is weak
SC3->Heeeey… tech traps, more moves that pick up off the ground and the one standing is at more advantage. Yay for Tekken influence. :tup:
SC4->Mostly the same but they added a bit more variety. Some characters now have things called block traps on wakeup where the opponent either does nothing (and eats damage if the move hits ground) or stands up and blocks the attack, taking soul gauge damage.
Walls suuuuuuck
SC3->Wall splats are actually useful in combos. Yay for more Tekken influence.
SC4->Wall splats are even more like Tekken.
Too many clones
SC3->Some effort made to make the clones play differently. Pretty decent effort.
SC4->Almost no one plays remotely similar anymore. Woohoo!
The problem with SC3 was going straight to console really fucked the game up. They eventually fixed most of it in AE. But too little too late. Access to AE was tiny and they’d already lost all their hype and goodwill. And who wants to play a game with no competition anyway? And honestly speaking, it even took me a while before I would rank AE anywhere near the levels of SC2. Mind you, it never got there. But AE is a solid game with some balancing issues. And I only started really appreciating it after I played in Japan in May 2008.
One of the reasons why SC4 actually happens to be a good game is because it’s for the most part SC3:AE with some extras. And I’ve commented that SC4 feels like what they probably wanted SC3 to be from the beginning. SC3 done right so to speak. Unfortunately, this also means that most of the people who didn’t like SC3 also don’t like SC4. Because they play it and go ewwwww not this shit again.
CF doesn’t help because it’s one of those features that on it’s face looks like a terrible idea. And people who hate the game anyway are going to call it what it sounds like. A gimmick. However, if you play the game you’ll realise it adds a very potent layer of depth to the game. Making outright turtling less viable and letting characters with less potent mid-low/mid-throw mixups compete. Admittedly armor breaks are a gimmick. But luckily one that doesn’t affect the game negatively at all. They gave it a use in BD but who the hell knows how good a game BD is since no one gives a shit about a portable release.
From my perspective, SC2 is still a better game than SC4, because I enjoy the much more free-form gameplay more. But not by much. SC4 is just a very solid game that needs a couple of issues worked out. There are some in Singapore and Hong Kong that feel that SC4 is actually the best game in the series.
I honestly haven’t played much SC1. And only casually for shits and giggles. So I can’t comment on it. But I’m pretty sure it’s at least as good as SC2 based on what I know about it. I have no desire to really try pick up the game since none of my characters are in that game. Except Mina, who I only picked up in SC3 so they don’t play anywhere near the same. I also very much doubt we can even get people to play it. We have a much better chance getting people locally to play SC2 or SC3 since those have arcade releases.
I was a huge arcade nut for this game and was National Champion here for it so I guess I qualify.
From Soul Edge to Soulcalibur 1 it was a pretty HUGE leap.
Soul Edge was more in the veins of old Virtua Fighter style with weapons, with the stiff movement, the 22/28 thing for sidestepping and the infamous VF pounce attack for oki. It had the infamous VF Ring Out feature, parries, and weapon breaking. However, the stages were mostly the same in geography and the game was so stiff and imbalanced that it wasn’t taken seriously for long.
In comes SC1 in arcades which had great graphics , music and light effects at the time (Tekken Tag arcade engine) , the engine ditched the stiff movement of Soul Edge for the 8wayrun system which at the time was groundbreaking. This was the first 3-D fighter non named Tobal, to implement this feature and it was for all purposes the first fully 3-D fighter. This 8wayrun system was so groundbreaking and succesful that all 3-D fighters now implement it.
The game was incredibly fast and still is compared to it’s sequels, the game had different geography for stages unlike Soul Edge, the GI system had changed as well with the 4 variations of it 4/1/6/3 (which later would be dumbed down in SC2 for easier access) , the returning characters from Soul Edge were vastly different from their previous appearance and it helps that there were 9 (10 if you count console) new characters that were actually exciting and great designs as well.
The weapon breaking system was ditched in favor of the Soul Charge system which gave the Soul Charge unblockables at low levels and guaranteed CHs on max level which was level 3. This added a new level of strategy as you have to be more aware of the SCUBS at all times as it took chunks of damage for the most part.
The VF pounce system was ditched as well for a more Tekken style approach of ground hits but without the elaborate ground game options (this will be further developed in SC3) .
SC1 also brought the Air Control system which is also groundbreaking at the time. Unlike Tekken which is combo and juggle heavy, SC1 brought a system that on launch guarantees only the first hit of the juggle. After that the launched person has the option to move the character away from following hits and RO positions. This is extremely important because if this feature wasn’t created, most matches would be like launch into juggle RO carry which was one of Soul Edge’s many issues. Now, in SC1 unless you were launched right next with RO behind you, you always had a chance to avoid the ROs and heavy juggles.
SC1 brought lots and lots of stagerrings, stun and crumple animations as well which goes to the frame data area of the game and this is important. SC1 was a offense heavy game. It was fast (the fastest game in the series) , damage factor was very high (almost Tekken 3 high) , stages were mostly small with few exceptions ( Rock’s colloseum in arcades and add Cervantes stage for DC) and most attacks of all characters were + on block so it wasn’t a game for turtles which made it exciting and fresh.
Namco made a masterpiece and it was further enhanced with the DC release which adds Cervantes and Inferno to the roster and enhances the great graphics of the arcade along with tons of features and goodies. It was game of the year almost unanimously everywhere.
The difference of SC1 and its sequels IMO it’s the + frames on block aspect of the game, the speed and the damage. SC2 has a much better Soul Charge game but other minuses that I don’t want to get into now and SC3 and 4 expanded on the oki game and made it also a big part of strategy as well. SC4 and Broken Destiny which is the latest release are very very solid games, especially Broken Destiny but the sequels have failed in capturing all the ingredients into the package like SC1 did. I think is the frame game but that’s just IMO.
Ah, great. That’s the kind of information I wanted, thank you.
I know a lot of people favor offensive, fast games (just look at how many people want SF4 to be faster), so I guess that would explain why everyone prefers SC1 and thinks the series took a turn for the worse then. Now I’m even more curious to check out SC1 actually.
This was the reason why they made GI’s inthe first place, as a way to compensate for all the moves that were + block. it was a reactive blocking mechanic that allowed the defender to go back on the offensive.
As the series progressed, more moves became unsafe, and the game game disolved into block punish, block punish deal. Why bother attempting a GI to try an un-garuanteed follow up, when you can simply block and get a a garuanteed follow-up.
So they designed the Critical finisher system, in order to make people GI and Side-step, since no one was doing many GI’s at all. Moves were still unsafe on block, and people could still block and punish all they liked, but they now had to worry about getting CF’ed.
Frankly, IMO they just should have made moves more like SC1, if they really wanted to encourage GI’ing, then make a new gimmick.
- and, yes Hwang was better than the new dude. But he wasn’t cool enough to warrant dropping a series for). Ya’ll sound like rabid 3s fanboys.
