And this why I really hate SC4 was because of the Tracking Moves and the butchered 8 way run!
I remember in SC2 when someone try to mash Vertical Attacks, I just quickly 8 way run to avoid it and nail them with an attack while they were still mashing Vertical Attacks.
It doesn’t work like that anymore in SC4 because of the Tracking Moves and how 8 way running is not instant anymore, it actually takes a second to 8 way run and that split second can get you nailed by an attack.
I’m sure Namco did that in favor for the Casual Gamers (Button Mashers) so they can have a chance at going at more skilled players and top it off with a crappy netcode, you got yourself a scrubby button mashing game.
It’s so sad that companies like Namco and Capcom are now appealing more to Casual Gamers more, they get more money, but the fighters looses it soul.
That’s because there is a difference between a step, and 8wayrun. 8wayrun is when you hold 2 or 8. a step is when you tap 2 or 8. 8wayrunning will not avoid nearly as much as a proper step, and this is how most good players avoided attacks in… well every sc3. It’s nothing new to the series, it’s just a misconception of how you are meant to avoid attacks.
Once you learn how to step, you will learn how much better it is.
because i played as well as watch a decent amount of video in sc4 where 3d movement isnt used much at all. shit is seriously back and forth on a 2d plane like streetfighter. tekken seriously uses more 3d movement which is a crying shame cause that game blows (atleast for me it does…)
3d movement and parries are what made the series for me. i stopped playing 2 after 2g came out. i’m not going to play 4 when parries give very little to no advantage, and the only dodging feature thats decent is step and NOT 8wr, if i wanted to step like fetz i would have been doing it in sc2 after we all saw the power of it at nationals. steppeing is what tekken players do. and its what sc3 and 4 players do.
the only big reason for 8wr after 2 was in order to get out 8wr moves.
i sat there and played 4 against high level players like motempest and unconkable and realized i was getting more owned than would be usual… at first i couldnt put my finger on it, but then i quickly realized that my 8wr wasnt sidesteppping there verts at all…
so i went home and went straight to training and figured out the propertys of the 8wr and step and told myself… yeah this shit is stupid.
if you like the series after 2 thats cool man more power to you :rock:
just know that this is a direction the series wasnt MEANT to go in.
after all the name of the new sc sight is 8 WAY RUN
funny that they name there site after a mechanic that barely even exists anymore in 4 if you dont count running backwards and forwards.
8wayrunning is still useful, but it isn’t the be all end all to avoid vertical attacks. Sorry you don’t like that, but you don’t really have any idea of where the series was MEANT to go unless you are somehow part of the dev team? If so do they think they messed up in the direction the series has gone?
I don’t mind if you don’t like the game, but don’t try and give out false information and pass it off as fact. 3d movement in this game is huge and is what makes certain characters managable. 8wayrun avoids certain things (slower verts) and step avoids tons of other stuff. Stage position is still extremely important as well… it’s not a 2d game at all.
[edit] Parries still matter as well. After a successful GI you get 18-19 (I always forget exactly which one it is) frames to perform a move. If your attack lands within those frames it will hit without your opponent being to guard. However you can be re-gi’d. But assuming by parry you mean the actual 4g parry, they have a different use. They can start wallcombos and position for a ringout depending on what kind of combo options you have, they give back soul gauge, and they essentially reset a fight back to neutral standing. This helps the most with characters who are pressured and need more space to function at optimal play, or if the players style is better off staying at range.
Parry has it’s uses and GI has it’s uses. Also I use 8way running for positioning purposes.
I think a big part of why I liked the 8wayrun rather than steps is that it made the game feel way more fluid. That was a big part of the appeal of the original SC to me is that it felt very natural and I was running around and evading shit on my own. In the new ones, you step and it just feels like you’re executing a canned dodge like in tekken or VF. It’s lost the really organic natural feel of running around the arena jockeying for position.
I’ve already explained why people who’ve played older titles find SCIV disappointing. Its not difficult to understand.
When you play an older title in a series, and its really good, really awe-inspiring; the type of game you would actually desperately search for after a several YEARS hiatus, and then you try out its sequel and its grossly misrepresented the original system, taken away what you love, demolished the original designs and presentation, lost that ‘spirit’, all to appeal to a larger demographic while still attempting to pass itself off as a title in the series is quite a shock.
Of course casual gamers, people that just picked up SCIV won’t give a shit because they won’t know any better.
I’m not trying to defend SCII and its problems either; I’ve already noted that the series begin to degrade at that point and can be best summed up when wellman said it was obviously meant to attract a larger audience, but I can still tolerate it.
Someone saying the game has a large competitive scene doesn’t mean much to me. ANY fighting game gets a competitive scene because people play and like it; doesn’t mean its great and damn sure doesn’t mean there aren’t better games out there - the video game industry is ruled by casual gamers these days. Truth.
I’ve said to people before that find my dislike of SC these days “baffling”; I have no other reasons for hating on the games. I would LOVE to be able to play this game and participate with the “community”, but its system has taken away what I love to such a length I won’t do that.
Another untrue statement (the not worth it part). Causing someone to completely whiff and being able to punish them with one of your slower more damaging moves that lead into combos is extremely good. Netting say 70-100 damage (depending on the character) is well worth the risk of stepping… especially the you really don’t risk all that much compared to what you can get out of it.
I have spent a long time studying step and using it in matches. People use it against me because blocking one of my linear moves that give + on block is much less preferable to stepping it and punishing me. There is no debating this, I can get video evidence of step being good if I really need to in order to prove my point.
[edit] Tech Romancer: That’s fine if it’s not the game for you, I can respect that. Like I said I just don’t like people making false statements as a way to justify them disliking a game. If they don’t like it because it feels wrong, or because Ivys breasts are too big that’s fine with me. When people start saying step is bad and it’s just a 2d game, then I feel the need to defend it. Even moreso since I’ve spent a lot of time practicing my step, learning what moves can and can’t be stepped and so on.
um yes…? the parrying system ombined with the 8wr system is what the series WAS SOLD ON. i can remember adverts talking about no longer being restricted to a 2d playing field and being the only fighter to havee TRUE 3 d movement as a MAJOR part of the gameplay
i’m not. 3d movement through certain characters MOVES doesnt count (where did i ever say that sidestepping moves arent any good anymore in 4 ???
once at the beginning of the round??? lol.
heres a match of sc4 at high level:
[media=youtube]hAlC7xrr9JU[/media]
i only watched the first match but the only evasive movement thats seen comes from takis possession (LOL)
8wr is used a total of about 5 times in the entire match. step is used more… but almost everytime its used it doesnt even step anything… lol shit looks like tekken to me.
[media=youtube]OKMlSuv6km4[/media]
however in this random match that i just picked up from the internet we see a helluva lot more 8wr and sidestepping in general.
its not hard to see.
i didnt say that 8wr was totally useless in 3 or 4 i said that it sucked. IT DOES.
chuns sbk in 4 isnt completely useless but it sure as hell sucks.
High level match? That was a match back in september only a few months after the game came out. That is not a high level match, that is people still trying to learn the game. If I linked a match of myself back in september It would be literally the same. Back then I did not step or 8wayrun at all and my gameplay was much less refined. Now my gameplay is much better and I am heavily exploring movement.
[edit] since you are linking things, i’ll link something thats almost5 months old but still proves my point… using the same person you linked in your video. Aris vs Ceirnian at the socal regionals tournament. Tell me that we aren’t moving please.
um yeah neither one of you uses 8wr much at all except to get away from the edge.
thats just FANTASTIC use of 8wr… show us more. then you can go on about your leet RO skills with hilde while we all yawn.
srry but c’mon dude you really think your using the ring in that video???
you guys are just getting knocked on the ground AND THEN using ground roll to reposition away from the edge…
continue playing by all means… dont think that that gameplay is anywhere near what was going on in sc2 though.
It has nothing to do with my ‘leet RO skills’ it only has anything to do with movement in the game. If you really don’t see the use of 8wayrun in the game (8wayrun getting behind bb for instance and positioning) then I don’t know what to say. Good luck playing something else, hope you found (or find) the perfect game for you.
I agree with Ceirnian reguarding step and 8wr in sc4. It is still very useful. It is used a lot in high level matches but it’s a very subtle part of offense and defense and can be hard to spot. But believe me, it definitely one of the things that goes through players’ minds when they play this game.
As far as pure defense goes, I think this game has a very good mix of blocking, GI, Auto-GI, moves with evasive properties, and stepping. You can walk around moves like crazy like you can in say SC2 or even Tekken 5. It’s a very defense based game, and if you have a good defense you can get away with having a sub par offense. Good players can get around and BLOCK your attacks and beat you with AA, BB, a low, and throws if they wanted to.
Dime, I also wanted to add that Broken Destiny (the psp game that I really hope gets a port to console) seems to have an upgraded 8wayrun system. Watched a few gameplay videos, and even though no one amazing is playing I’ve noticed 8wayrun evading things that normally would track it. So maybe that game will end up closer to what you are looking for in SC.
Yeah having two different movement systems in a 3D fighter is really a good idea… To me 8wr is basically used against slow verts plus gaining terrain advantage, but step is for when you NEED to avoid an attack. It’s the same thing with VF5R right now, with your evade being used against attacks, but Offensive Move for positioning around the ring.
If step went back to how it was in sc2 people would complain even more so out the game being to defensive, even tho essentially thats what there asking for.
Its entirely true, as well as the insight on VF. Even though its true that game has one of the best gameplay systems, it loses out on a lot of American audiences because of its overall lack of appeal and fluff - we all know that stuff is superficial, not needed and doesn’t improve anything for a game’s quality in the long run, but its sadly the truth when it comes to market appeal these days.