my only problem with p-gorath using phoenix was that he could of used some of that meter for chaos dimension(james chen showed off it’s power earlier that night)restricting himself from using any meter at all really didn’t help the team
don’t know if this is new or not, but L mystic smash if spaced properly will cross up the opponent (as in at almost the max distance, he will land “in” their character and then end up on the other side) might post a video later if I can get a working camera
I didn’t know snap-backs/snap-ins, where a unique tactics lol.
I really think she is pretty balanced.
I don’t like the knockdown of mystic ray and I don’t need the otg because of my Wesker assist. Hmm… I do like shuma. But we’ll see I suppose - sad about its crummy priority!
In regards to comment on phoenix, the fact you are FORCED to snap her in early completely changes your approach to some matches. For instance some characters don’t have good snapback setups so they can’t use much in the way of combo’s so they do very little damage then snap. Also many characters literally can’t stop even regular phoenix, good example is someone like tron/felicia/wolverine/chris, or they can only punish her fireball runaway with random supers like sentinal/hulk/taskmaster. Combine that with dark phoenix and you literally do have to have specific combo’s or assists solely to stop her. For instance some characters literally only have 3-4 choices to make to use as an assist to be able to stop phoenix at all, then factor in dark phoenix and she is majorly cheap. Case in point my teams are kind of bad against phoenix (only matchup I can’t seem to handle match-upwise, I have ways around keep away just not hers) so before the DLC i learned how to play akuma, solely to be able to random super/tatsu her. I had to learn a seperate character only to use against someone who uses phoenix.
Anyways off the topic of phoenix b.s. I know you like cpt. gimpy wouldn’t mystic stare work well for his cross up game. It has short range but it knocks them up and has more stun on it allowing you to setup cpt. combos. I find mystic stare better cross-up and easy to combo after if used as a cross up but you just have to be closer to use it.
Oh come on. Pheonix dies in ONE COMBO. She is not cheap, you just have to think outside the square when it comes to beating her. Why are people so afraid of using snapback as if it’s a major detraction from their ‘normal’ game play? Not to mention that there are various setups already that can deal damage to an incoming character after a snapback, almost guaranteed.
Oh wah, I have to mix up the way I play in order to deal with Dante because he’s got a teleport and I like to Zone.
You’ve not played any good pheonix players have you squirrel…
anyone else have a bit of a hard time getting the timing of mystic stare right?
sometimes i get mystic stare to come out other times i just get a normal attack
nope, but what does it matter if ‘I’ haven’t played them or not? Pheonix has been a common sight in tournaments so far. Valid strategies have already been discovered to beat her, including but not limited to:
.hit her
.chip her out
.run away from her until timeout
.snap her in early
.unblockable lv 3 (shuma or X-23)
so on so forth. She’s not cheap, she’s just different.
I think Shuma/X23 unblockable is the only guaranteed way of killing her and she has to come in for it to be so.
What makes her a big problem is that she’s a very good character as normal Phoenix.
It is still very difficult to hit her if the player lames you out. You can’t air-throw her on the way in, so all she has to do is block your ground mixup - then teleport away and hard-tag out when she’s done. You have a mere few seconds to capitalize on this. If you fail, she’s gained more meter at your expense of 1 or more bars.
Chipping her works but you probably won’t have much hyper meter if you’re constantly snapping her in. Running away very rarely works and is difficult to do so with 30+ seconds on the clock because Phoenix has a million ways to get in and even from range she can chip you over time very well.
Just saying, Phoenix is pretty cheap with XF3. If Dark Phoenix couldn’t get the XF3 damage boost/health degen negation, we’d be willing to take more risks of bringing her in. But as it stands, her XF3 basic magic series into air combo kills characters even without using Phoenix Rage.
Actually phoenix can teleport the frame she comes in to escape even shuma/x-23 unblockables. Combine this with her heavy teleport being pretty much un punishable by 90% of the cast she can actually come into the match pretty safely if the phoenix player is smart. Someone i play with is one of the best pheonix’s around (he made max infinity counter pick him with an ammy/tron team, and max infinity is a phoenix player who is top 10 in every tournie he plays in) and let me tell you that her lame game is soooo good its infuriating. The only time i even see a hole in her zoning game is when she comes into the match, other than that your just fishing for her. Since good phoenix players don’t teleport unless 100% safe you have to find a way to stop super jump fireball/divekick cancel shenanigans.
This seems like a good time to talk about it, I’ve yet to play my friend with shuma tomorrow prolly and I need to know how to stop phoenix. I love his assist against her but even on point mystic ray doesn’t do enough damage for its risk against phoenix. I’ve figured you can do mystic smash super full screen x factor into mystic smash to force her into block stun, but what exactly should shuma do against phoenix without xfactor. Yes I will try and land lvl3’s on her, but how do i get in without ending up in block stun till she escapes?
Now a useful trick i discovered with wolvie is that when she goes to super jump u dash super jump at her and just block. This will make u eat chip from fireball and phoenix has lots of +frames on this, however this forces phoenix to land as another air fireball is unsafe. She can easily teleport mix up or dash/fly away after wards but it gives you an opportunity to try and chase her down a little bit so you are closer when she supers jumps(you usually can’t catch her if she just dive kicks dashs to other side cause of the block stun). This is really be shuma’s best chance to hope she tries super jump fireball while you are somewhat close since you can super jump heavy mystic smash to catch her in fireball start up. Now this is kind of gimmicky idea and if the phoenix player falls for it once he’ll be safer next time and maybe just shoot a light fireball(barely any start up so u get hit) or something else like super jump dive kick dash. This the only solid way i see shuma getting in on laming phoenixes.
Also I’ve found that mystic stare is pretty pointless in this matchup as even if it beats fireball she won’t be in range/height to be hit. It is interesting if the mystic stare punish teleports trick(i mentioned it elsewhere in this thread) works against her, I’ll try and practice it a bit and see if it works on her. I’ve also foun that random supers are very ineffective, phoenix has plenty of time to hear the super and just teleport behind shuma before she gets touched, even if she is in the middle of a heavy fireball start up. A VERY important general matchup pointer for any char against phoenix, if you are in the corner, and she teleports behind you or in front of you, you can in fact on reaction normal grab her (1/10th of a second window) but only if you are in the corner.
If anyone else has any pointers abut shuma on point against phoenix please lay it out here.
How would shuma even get near phoenix to level 3 her? Anyone who doesn’t think phoenix is the best character, regardless of the tactics you need to beat her(which aren’t even guaranteed) is retarded. Not saying shes super broken to the point that she wins everything, but yeah, shes the best.
Well, I think she’s the best right now, although no telling what the future holds for the rest of the cast.
Doubtful anyone can surpass dp bullshit though.
Chaos Dimension must be the most enjoyable Level 3 to pull off during a match
opponent tries to avoid you by running away or firing stuff at you
but if you can manage to catch them with one heavy attack
then Bam! they’re going on a ride to the chaos dimension!
Most of the time it’s better to combo into it though, unless you plan to use it defensively or to kill someone coming in.
Also, Pheonix Teleports put her behind, above, or in front of shuma. Every teleport puts her in range of chaos dimension’s big hitbox.
All you need to do have 4 bars. Snap out the other character, activate CD and then jump light attack her as she comes in. If it hits or she blocks it, chaos dimension and you’ll get her in blockstun. If she teleports, you’ll get her anyway because her teleport’s so fast she’ll be near you by the time your light attack is over and you’ll just turn around and get her anyway.
Also, has anyone even tried using air mystic smash H to deal with superjump runaway fireball spam? Can’t you arc over the projectiles and at least try to swat her down?
Chaos Dimension is really deadly to sentinel now due to the nerf(Watch his health go bye bye…)and if shuma’s x-factored
then it’s gonna be like sentinel’s got phoenix health(maybe not that bad but still woah)
just a little minor thing i noticed but whatever
is it just me or is his air m attack really freaking awesome?(i always do air m into mystic smash pretty basic and typical but it works none the less)i haven’t bothered with the rest of his normals much(probably should)but this one just makes me glad i decided to main the tentacled terror
I see the Sentinel bandwagon has been replaced with the Phoenix bandwagon. Wonder what it’ll be next week.
Phoenix isn’t a easy mode character
sooner or later those guys will mess up and then they’ll switch to someone else
not everyone likes to conserve meter
hmmm whats yall general opinion on shuma, good , bad, decent , ect
seems to be ‘decent’ right about now, but it’s still pretty early.