good news everyone! :D:D:D
good point, i asked OTinhoso on twitter, hopefully he’ll answer back 
cr.mp wasn’t even good enough to warrant a nerf 
5 active frames on run-overhead sounds good to me, combined with the hit box buff. I was gonna say…if they make the startup any worse than it already is, they may as well just remove the move entirely for how useless it would be.
Also with EX BSK, have they increased the invincibility to match? It would be pretty sweet if it now beat Seth and Oni’s DPs instead of trading or just being beat clean. But even so, a 6 frame EX reversal is useless. EX DP style reversals should ALL be 3 or 4 frames. They’re supposed to be a ‘get the hell off me!’ move, not a ‘have a cup of tea while waiting for my startup frames to end.’
Fierce hozanto being 2 frames faster? Literally useless…i can’t think of a single situation where this will help with anything. If LP hozanto was 2 frames faster or more positive on block, that would have been helpful. Fierce is probably the most redundant move in Guy’s arsenal.
Also ninja sickle…why change it? Hardly any Guy players use it. I do. The original startup on it allows you to do specific meaty timing setups which beat any low normal, throw, command grab, and even allow you to OS punish Abel’s rolls and Akuma/Evil Ryu’s forward teleports. Now they’ve gone and fucked it up so it will come out too early and whiff, while doing nothing to make it a more viable attack that people will actually use. Sometimes slow moves are that way for a reason…
The more I hear about these changes, the more worried I am. Capcom need to realise that the reason people were crying for Guy to be nerfed is because they never learnt the matchup and they suck, not because Guy is overpowered in any way. Then they go and buff Oni…? Go ask anyone in the Topanga league if they think Oni needs to be buffed after Wao’s domination.
Dear god we need to get Combofiend to fix this mess!
If run over head startup increased I’ll be a very annoyed little Guy.
If run overhead active frames got a boost then a happy Guy is me.
overall, this is all an emotional rollercoaster ha ha
If stand HK really is a reliable anti-air now, then Guy has been unequivocally and majorly buffed.
People need to stop crying about having a 6 frame SRK. Sounding like babies.
nebbiez: can’t believe you complained even about that Ninja Sickle change… :)))))
Duck mp being worse I guess I can understand it is a powerful attack for what it is. Giving him a better stand hk is nice. However duck mp is a strong anti air also when the opponent is up on top of you, at this range you would get a CLOSE stand hk. So, this is not necessarily a great trade. Its merely changing one thing one problem for the other.
Flip kick being faster is nice. Unfortunately if the move still has a wonky hit box that doesnt always work properly this may not end up matter much in the end. Although it being 9 frame start up could mean he has some strange link combos with it, if you can do late hitting stand hks etc like I did in my original guy combo videos.
HP elbow being 2 frames faster is fine. Nothing to complain about, ive used it as it originally is to go through fireballs if you guess correctly. So now more chances for this to be used dont see why this change doesnt matter. It certainly doenst hurt…
Hurricane kick being 6 frames is lame. So exactly how does it hit though? Will it always hit 4 times? And what about it not hitting certain low attacks? Was that fixed?
Still no change on regular hurricane kicks missing and having awkward hit boxes eh? Bummer.
Elbow not losing to low profile moves IF it works and if its for bushin flip as well. This is a potentially great change at least on paper. However if its only a change on paper and doesnt actually work like that in matchs then…
Run being faster obviously good…
Overhead being slower is… Pretty silly. Theres no point in slowing down a move that is not over powered. Doesnt make since to me. The hit box is bigger again they said they fixed this move in the orginal super SF4 and it still ended up being not correct so time will tell. If correctly breaks all focus attacks and not just some this will help. But does the hit box also go down more so you can just duck and have it lose to low profile moves as well? Also what about running ex overhead, is that still slower then normal? And does it still not juggle like the normal? Really makes no sense that for almost all purposes the regular over head is better then the EX just strange.
And of course better walk speed is good, better mp to hp combo is good. Hopefully it doesnt wiff from as many distances. But then again they said they fixed this in the first update and it was still off so~
HK is 5 frames improved hitbox. All is well if cr.mp is still a viable poke
Saishuu (dialup) hope youre well man. The run overhead appears to be a mistranslated seems like it have more active frames on second hit and bigger hitbox. Ex tatsu hits low moves since AE.
I knew in my heart i knew that St.hk or HK tetsu would replace Cr.mp.If you needed a shoryuken like move to anti air you would of been wasting meter that could of took the round but we still have a instant air grab a better ground game,Cr.mk,an unduckable(move you can’t low profile)elbow drop If the extended hitbox on neck flip is unduckable and will always give two hits “don’t complain(jk)”.
I personally wanted a buff on his pokes for footsies but they give us faster walk speed for footsies(not sure if its akuma like or not)you can also kara D/F+Hk to make in easier to combo if you land a neutral Hp or jumping Hk/MK in the corner now that its start up is less jumping mk should work alot better to combo into Ninja Sickle without a kara or being a deep hit.This is a damage boost in the corner with a better meterless anti-air making guy save meter to kill in 2-3 combos in the corner.
I also like to say that this will change how we play and I see that using Cr.mp as your main anti-air will call for a complain but guy is solid character with less design flaws.Lets hope for no more nerfs til ultra drops.
I came to bitch about c.mp then I saw s.rh is better and walk speed buff. Very well capcom, you pass for now lol
I need to see St.HK in action to feel at ease!
Also, down forward heavy kick is gonna be a viable frame trap now, with 9 frame startup . Could possibly use it near mid-screen into hozanto and ultra? Would like it to be throw invisible from the start though.
For years I’ve been trying to work out how to actually use ninja sickle effectively. Over the last few months my tech with it has really come on. My opinion of the move has totally changed from “It’s too slow and useless” to “Wow this has sick potential in certain matchups and situations!”
Now, my opinion is “Capcom have decreased the startup on both ninja sickle and fierce hozanto because they felt like they needed to ‘buff’ Guy’s 2 most unused moves to try and disguise the severity of the nerfs he received. 2 insignificant and possibly even detrimental buffs does not right the wrongs of a 6 frame EX BSK that still can’t be FADCed.”
Having said that…far st. HK being a more reliable anti-air and whiff punisher is very good news indeed. And I see a lot of the cast have received nerfs that will allow Guy to ultra 2 punish certain things. Poor Bison!
P.S. What is with all the Oni buffs? He’s already OP as it is without making him stronger
Remember Guys none of this is final , so a lot of these buffs or nerfs might not stay.
I remember HP Hozantos were buffed in some AE loketest then brought back to the same. I dont think even capcom is stupid enough to remove his only AA and not replace it. Unless they give him some insane walk speed.
I wish someone was there to tell us exactly how fast his walkspeed is.
Neck flip will NEVER always be 2 hits it’s not meant to hit twice when they are crouching.
I might have to add… judging from the knockback and how most bisons chip with SK… you’ll never have them close enough to grab with U2. Ninja sickle had barely any uses whatsoever in AE where I didn’t have a better option, I’m pretty sure I only use it exclusively as a meaty in 2 or 3 matches notably Blanka and that’s it. having it 9 frames for a frame trap similar to Cr.hp against some of the cast? I’ll take that gladly.
Guy’s St.hk will likely be Chun li status in terms of usage even moreso now. Stop asking for EX Tatsu to be an FADC to be quite honest you don’t even need the move, let alone will you barely use it unless you’re sure it’s going to hit anyways. I don’t want to risk 3 bars… for a hit of 50. I’ll take the risk for 170 over that gladly.
I’ll use 3 bars to get out of pressure - or 3 bars to land ultra after empty jump ex tatsu. Simply put - theres no reason why it **shouldnt **be fadc able…
wonder if neutral jump HK is still pointless
Not really sure how I feel about far st. HK replacing cr. MP as an anti-air, I think it’s for the worse.
1.) Far st. HK is 8f start up, cr. MP is 6f start up
2.) Far st. HK is 16f recovery, cr. MP is 9f recovery
3.) Far st. HK is not cancellable whereas cr. MP is (usually into run stop or other shenanigans)
4.) Far st. HK can’t cover the area above Guy’s head and it’ll turn into a cl st. HK if the opponent is too close, unless Guy’s cl st. HK gets changed to similar to what Ibuki’s cl st. HK is, getting a cl st. HK with Guy could be his downfall. I can foresee that characters with low jump arcs could give Guy a lot of problems.
5.) cr. MP was more or less an all-purpose anti-air (best option to go for, regardless of the angle/range), st. HK only covers a certain angle
I think we’ll have to see how much of far st. HK has changed to really see, for all we know, the frame data for it may have changed as well even though I doubt it.
As for EX BSK, I don’t like the change since there are very rare situations where the slower start up could actually be advantageous (like what Guerilla_Tech mentioned). I think we’ll need to adjust our timing to be used as an anti-air since I like to do it deep so it gets most/all of the hits.
I never actually used Ninja Sickle outside of a stun in the corner so I welcome the change? I might use it as another frame trap option but since it has trouble hitting twice against crouching opponents, I’m not sure I will, unless they changed that too.
Run stop being 1f faster on recovery is welcomed but I kind of wonder if that would make him a bit too good now. Being -1 after a TC and then into cr. LK into more pressure might be very brutal against characters who don’t have a good 3f normal.
Elbow Drop not being low profiled is definitely nice since it’s not a braindead go-to option for a lot of characters. If they want to attempt to blow it up, they’ll have to take a risk with a DP of some sort (or a normal if they have it) making the Elbow Drop a much better bait move.
The Run Overhead nerf is unwarranted since most people could react to it, or at the very least, able to block it and it’s punishable thereafter. I don’t think many of us who play Guy use it too often so I guess I don’t really care about this change too much if it makes others happy.
Thank 武神 that TC got buffed, now I hope it stops whiffing unnecessarily against certain characters. This is/was probably the most highly demanded change from all of us.
I’m still a bit upset that Ultra 1 doesn’t just vacuum the opponent into the full animation if it connects since it scales so bad anyway, but whatever I guess.
I think we can all pretty much agree that the 2f faster start up on HP Hozanto is going to be unnoticeable since no one uses it anyway, it won’t be used on reaction even with this change since it’s still too slow.