Buffing his Elbow hit box is gonna have some big changes… we no longer have to worry about crossups being blown up by Lows.
Dunno how I feel about the Ex Tatsu change , on the bright side it is going to have more invincibility and hopefully all 4 hits will connect everytime.
The nerfs - the freaking nerfs…this is what happens when noobs complain about Guy.
Ultra change means nothing if it’s still as slow. Cr.mp was a GOOD anti-air but never overpowered so I don’t understand the nerf.
Ex tatsu is even more useless now - probably still not cancellable and there’s even less to fear when timing your safe jump against Guy.
I heard nothing about his floaty jump - unlike for Chun which has been made much faster. This means people still have lightyears to anti-air Guy
.
I heard nothing about his flip being made faster, or elbow coming down faster - which was crucial if these moves were gonna be scary* at all*.
Perhaps it’s still early and there are buffs we don’t know of - but who cares if his defensive game has been crushed. Surprised they didn’t nerf ex air grab too - to top it all off.
I wonder if that is gonna affect flip elbow, command elbow or both? If it does both, that is awesome.
A friend told me they were buffing far st.hk to be a better anti-air, and he said something about changing the active frames to 5. That’s a very specific ‘guess’ if he’s wrong, but he’s usually a reliable dude. I didn’t think to ask him where he found out about that but I will soon.
I don’t understand why people think it’s awesome that his elbow now does what it should have done 4 years ago.
Haha af0, you’ve always been so bitter about that elbow drop! 
Overall, I must say, these changes totally suck. It’s like they want to do away with Guy being played smart. They have got rid of his 2 best anti-air options by nerfing cr. MP and EX BSK. Even if EX BSK were to now hit both sides like Deejay’s EX upkicks, that would be made irrelevant by a SIX FRAME STARTUP!!! What were they thinking? So now we can’t hang back and play smart with anti-airs. Seriously…try playing against Zangief, Sakura, Blanka, M Bison, Seth or anyone with a ridiculous high priority jump in attack WITHOUT having cr. MP or EX BSK as viable anti-air options. cr. MK is useless, far st. HK will trade or get counter hit a lot of the time…it will be a mess. But what can we do now? Brain dead elbow drop spam against shotos to beat cr. MK? By day 2 every player will adapt and start to DP instead of cr. MK. I don’t consider this to be a buff for Guy at all. If target combo > run-stop is now -1, that again encourages Guy to be more aggressive (i.e. go dumb) instead of playing the positioning, footsie and anti-air game. Increased walk speed also seems to be in favour of making Guy more aggressive.
Seeing as I don’t consider the anti-low profile elbow drop to be a buff at all, this pretty much means Guy’s been nerfed to shit as far as I’m concerned. A 6 frame EX reversal that whiffs on crossup jumps, cannot be FADCed and STILL only ever hits Balrog 3 times. A slight walk speed increase and fixing ultra 1 so it connects as it always should have done…gee thanks!
Fair enough if they want to make Guy more aggressive. It’s not ideal, but I can work with it. But they’ve only marginally increased his offensive capabilities (i.e. fixed him to how he already should have been) while massively nerfing his already-flaky defensive options. I’d still like to see a hit box buff to run-overhead, make EX run-slide break armour and make normal overhead +3 on hit. They are all good pro-offensive changes that would somewhat balance out the significant nerfs to his defence.
Or better yet…they could just put him back to exactly how he was in AE 2012. Sure he has his faults, but at least he has cr. MP and EX BSK to rely on.
For reference, what was TC runstop as of right now in AEv2012?
There are 4 recovery frames after an air attack when you land on the ground. During the first two you can’t block, during all four you can’t attack. With 6 Frames on Ex BSK start up a perfect safe jump in which your character lands in the 2nd frame of Ex BSK start-up will go like this:
frame 1 of EX start up: opponent is finishing overheard (This will hit if you’re crouch block and put you in block stun if you’re in a standing block)
frames 2 to 3 of EX start up: Opponent is in block-recovery of jump.
frame 4 of Ex Start up: Opponent can block.
frame 6 of Ex Start up: Opponent can press buttons.
If I’ve worked this out correctly, wake-up EX BSK will be stuffed by OS DPs on safe-jump, and that’s only if they choose not to wait till the BSK is finished and full-combo punish during your landing frames.
I don’t understand where the alternative is. EX BSK had both throw invincibility and Hit invincibility on start up. The little I know about the game I can recognise that’s what makes it an effective wake up tool. Even though the example above requires precision to individual frame that precision is just to DP OS. You actually have a variance of 3 frames to block and full-combo punish.
Can Bushin Flip avoid DPs in this scenario? I’m not even bothered about punishing at this point, and it’s the only move I can think of that has throw invincibility other than the possibly debunked BSK.
Some one tell me my math/calcs are wrong or that it’s impossible for any character to into their safe jump quickly enough to get to the example I listed above, because it seems like Ultra will see wake-up crouching tech being Guys only sensible wake up action…
Hahaha! af0, peeps are just happy. We’ve been in the cotton fields picking away since they brought us on their ships from street fighter alpha to Super Street Fighter 4 and they are finally giving us some civil rights as Guy players.
“Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty elbow drop is free at last.” - Guy, Ultra SF 4, before being told about the assassination of his EX BSK.
I haven’t looked at the list completely but, I think quite easily, Guy got nerfed the hardest. It’s plain ridiculous - imagine nerfing Sakura’s cr.HP so it’s of no use? Imagine giving Ryu/Ken/Akuma 5 frame uppercuts? Imagine if Ibuki’s overheard now has 2 extra frames of startup? This is **exactly **what just happened to Guy, on all 3 counts.
Wow - HP hozanto 2 extra frames of startup. Who, if anyone ever, complained about HP hozanto?
We better speak up cos these “tests” should just remain exactly as that - tests. Leave Guy as he is - really I don’t mind the elbow whiffs if you’re gonna cut his balls off to make up for it.
changes so far for Ultra.
what do you guys think? c.MP as antiair and EX Tatsu nerfs are pretty important, however walkspeed, elbow and TC2 buffs are very good.
the rest of changes seem pretty much random (lol @ run - overhead startup nerf)
Hp hozanto is faster not slower.
Run stop from tc is currently -2,
Oh I see. I’m just so overwhelmed by the amount of nerfs that I’m reading the buffs wrong as well.
there are 3 nerfs… of which 1 doesn’t really count (run - overhead startup, but hitbox on the move increased)
i think we got more value than we’ve lost. faster walkspeed, no more ducking under elbow with low profile moves and TC2 buff
I just want my 4f and my xr.mp anti air back they didn’t have to make run overhead slower you can easily react to that
isn’t cr.mk a viable alternative anyway? sure it doesn’t cover al the situations c.mp did. i think it’s a manageable loss
EX tatsu startup to 6f is pretty huge though.
Not really. It only AAs moves that don’t point directly down towards your hurtbox and/or if they jump too short a distance to hit your core. I feel the cr.MP nerf hurts us more than what the buffs give in return. It’s like they’ve taken away the option to play safe keep-away.
Walk speed don’t mean much when people can jump in for free - especially at the beginning of a match where Guy is meterless. Cr.MK is okay from a distance - but cr.mp was good from a distance and from right above Guy.
Run overhead was already a taboo move at high level anyway - almost always being blocked and punished. Now it’s 2 frames slower so even those with less reactions can block it. Makes no real difference.
It’s simple, if your character is free to jump-ins, you’re most likely bottom tier in this game. Perhaps this is a good thing so we can all move on.
And where are those rumours about st.HK?
fighting jumping happy zangief will sure suck even more now… but it’s a better match vs shotos (elbow can no longer be ducked/punished with cr.forward, faster hp hozanto)
i don’t know… i’m not that pessimistic as you guys. you can still use focus backdash, cr.mk, cl.hp, far hk to antiair or avoid jumpins. it will take some adjustment, but it’s not something critical
EX tatsu is the bigger loss for when you absolutely positively have to get your opponent off
Losing cr.MP anti-air is nothing short of catastrophic- you cannot play footsies unless the opponent is scared to jump- but I’m still hoping they buffed some other anti-air (s.HK?) to make up for it. Increased walk speed and TC buff are both huge buffs, but they lose a lot of meaning if the opponent can just jump in free against meterless Guy.
Elbow beating low profile is pretty huge. Really hoping it holds true for Bushin Flip elbow too.
No idea why people are crying about a 4 frame anti-air dropping to 6 frames… with the delayed wake up mechanic, safe jumps aren’t as big a problem any more, so wake up Ex Tatsus aren’t really a problem… and if you’re missing an anti-air because its 6 frames instead of 4, then you have real problems with your reaction time.
Anyway, I’m tentatively looking at 2 chances to get some time with the loketest in Japan and Singapore. Will see what I can get and submit feedback from both locations that Guy needs cr.MP to anti-air (unless it turns out that he got another good meterless anti-air back in return).
Also is it just me, or is the Honda match up looking even worse now?
well… at least there’s that
O think they messed up with run overhead see the only thing that had a 3 in that move was the last hits active frame… Maybe its now 5? And they mistranslated it.