So with the new SF4 coming up. Lets keep the changes discussion in one thread.
Here is a link to some changes Capcom are considering
And here is the best part of the USF4 trailer
A max range S.MP chained to TC on a crouching Ken?? thats just insane. Ken is also one of the harder ones to hit. Looks like they just went nuts with the TC hitbox. Its not even touching him lol . This combined with a possibility of faster walk speed and a 1f Faster Run/Stop?? Very very strong character. MP Hozanto being 1f faster would also be amazing since it will combo off TC. and his U1 will actually be a threat.
I think Cr.HP - >TC will work on everybody now. Just hope guy doesnt get hit with any nerfs
Final Change list
Movement speed slightly increased
Close Standing LK recognition range reduced
Far Standing LK hitbox slightly expanded upward; active frames increased by 1 frame (2F → 3F); Start-up reduced by 2 frames (6F → 4F); Recovery reduced by 1 frame (9F → 8F)
Far Standing HK start-up reduced by 1 frame (8F → 7F); active frames increased by 2 frames (3F → 5F); recovery reduced by 1 frame (16F → 15F); hitbox expanded forward and upward
Crouching MP hitbox adjusted, no longer can be used as an anti-air
Diagonal Jump MK hitbox extended forward slightly
Elbow Drop (Jump 2+MP version) hitbox expanded downward
Ninja Sickle (3+HK) start-up reduced by 4 frames (11F → 7F); Recovery reduced by 1 frame (13F → 12F); Pushback on block reduced
Target Combo 2nd hit expanded downward and horizontally
H Hozanto start-up reduced by 2 frames (30F → 28F)
Run-Sudden Stop recovery reduced by 1F (17F → 16F)
Run-Neck Flip first hit slightly expanded downward
EX Run-Neck Flip now knocks down on air hit
EX Bushin Senpukyaku hitbox slightly expanded, easier to pull in opponent
Bushin Goraisenpujin (UC1) 2nd hit movement distance slightly increased, easier to use in combos
His hand actually grazes him but withthe animation and everything it won’t appear that way, they may tone it down a bit, but currently I’m very happy. This gives us a better mantle on pressure. since we won’t always have to resort to st.mp run stop anymore and just stick to TC.
As long as they don’t nerf anything else i’ll be happy with anything we get. Would a jab hozanto even reach from max distance on that new TC hitbox?
I do think Guy is going to be one of the best whiff punishers in the game with the new target combo. 5 frame normal with great range that leads into hard knockdown. Yes, he could do this before with just st.mp xx run slide but it will probably be much easier and more damaging now, not to mention in the off chance they block the TC you can confirm into runstop.
Anyways, Guy ultra 2 being 0+1 startup makes no sense. Zangief’s is 1+0 and is inescapable after animation whereas Guy’s is.
Here’s the difference… Guy’s can beats Safejumps for free and he can still punish generally safe moves as can Gief. What does Guy have over Gief… Movement… giving Guy a 0 frame super would be OP. It was also never 0 frame…
I use U2 almost always and I think I’m one of the few who find it quite fine the way it is. It has a tactical use that people dont realize very often, generally against characters whose setups Guy tends to suffer a lot. And there still is the armor cancelling to make it tougher… I’m OK with it just the way it is.
I would LOVE just one little tweak: make cr. short 6f recovery instead of 7f. Even though they nerf cr. jab by making it 7f recovery, it would be AMAZING! It would increase Guy’s punishing potential a lot without rely only on confirming to be consistent.
To the cr.short no, currently both cr.lp and cr.lk are 13 frame moves altogether, one frame recovery wouldn’t mean much when a human player isn’t going to be able to punish your normal 90% of the time currently without actually expecting you to cr. lk.
Only match I use U2 is Dan, otherwise I like playing footsies and getting that U1. also I’ve learned armor cancels aren’t always a good idea. (They can still special cancel most whatever normal they likely used and GGs to wasted meter.
You misunderstand me, I’m not saying I need this ultra to be inescapable, I’m saying I don’t get this 0+1 versus 1+0 business. Does this mean that it takes 1 frame to get to ultra freeze, then is 0 frames after then (in Gief’s case)? And Guy’s starts up instantly but after freeze takes 1 frame to begin, thus making it escapable?
In other words I just want they to make the cr. short/st. strong link 2 frames instead of one… cr. short 12f move total. Nothing else.
Armor cancelling isn’t a good idea VERY often cuz it relies entirely on guess, but once some realize you’re able to do it, you put them some fear. I use U2 almost always, to not say always. For me, it’s not good due to its damage nor comboability or stuff, but because of things you can punish HARD by it, mainly safe jump setups and lazy traps.
For me its quite fine, high gamble, high reward… doesnt need any tweak.
Changing the recovery doesn’t mean it will alter the frame data. Look at cl.st.mp it had its hitstun altered and blockstun but it still carries the same frame advantage. They could easily take away 1 frame of hitstun. The one frame isn’t hard but making it a 2 frame would make Guy derp, Likely make him have several changes accounted which isn’t necessary. You can switch it out with cr.llk - cr.lp instead of lk -lk.
500 damage for a punish is solid and quite a changer but still I only use it in one matchup really and the other decision there for it is Gief but that comes form how the player plays, I will pull it out sparingly in other matches only to gimp the opponent.
I know it doesnt… I was thinking keep all the rest of data the same, just change recovery.
It may be a stupid idea, but lets think about… I dont see so many changes, not so great changes at all dude. You just would be able to combo same stuff you already can from jab from a slightly longer distance without rely only on confirming to be somewhat consistent… switch both lows data looks also a good idea.
I know Guy is meant to be a difficult character to handle and I’m fine with it, to be honest I think this 2nd hit TCs hitbox shown in USF4 teaser is just stupid. They could just fix those ridiculous whiffs within range like stand Sakura and that would be quite honest, but to make it hit miles away from its animation - like A3 - will make buffering braindead. Give him a 2 frame link alone wouldnt change his metagame, nor make anything OP…
I dont think so due to pushback… unless they really give it that hitbox shown in the teaser…
Alpha 3 it didn’t hit braindead ranges, I’ve been playing it still A3 is whiff where it should and changes at spots where the HP won’t even reach. It mostly whiffed near max or off a counterhit st.mp (this I believe is just because of the CH. Otherwise TC will always hit. The hitbox in the teaser isn’t obnoxious, if you watch it closely it Guy’s hand does indeed graze Ken but because of the animation it doesn’t appear so.
Yes, I did pay more attention to it, you’re right. About A3, it plays a completely different role in this game so its okay and theres nothing braindead there (just the opposite)… this Guy remerbers more the A2 one, including the TC whiffs part…
