St.HK is becoming 5 frames with a better overall hitbox… Also you clearly don’t know how good cl.st.hk is, that thing can demoralize attacks above his head, notably Honda’s buttslam which is harder to time with cr.mp than that move itself. Close heavy has always been a good anti air for casts that have a move such as that. 16 frames of recovery… you already throw out st.mp which has the same thing… Granted I love cr.mp but since too many people complain about it, it is what it is. If people can’t get past st.hk we do more damage and still can’t be easily jumped on.
Af0 I don’t see why its necessary, I’ve been used to never having a wakeup attack for ages now. It’s honestly not that huge of a deal. If we can’t make it safe its whatever. Nothing should stop you from favoring blocking. I only use EX tatsu when I’m almost sure its going to hit or I feel its a good option. In a match you’ll maybe see me use it twice at best, I think you guys just lost the ability to have a tendency for patience over wanting to continuously be in pressure.
HP Hozanto will be 28 frames, MP hozanto is 23. Most Hadouken you can react to with that because their recovery is around the 30 mark.
Now I’m going to put this in bold because I caught the mistake and everyone apparently doesn’t like to read.
RUN OVERHEAD did not get a nerf. It was mistranslated, currently the 2nd hit of Run overhead is active for 3 frames, it was given 2 more making 5 and has a better hitbox. The only possibly nerf would be if we lost the ability to combo after it but gained the ability to hit low profiles so we may be able to combo after certain situations and meaties
At least most of the list is stuff I suggested. I’m glad about that.
Are you sure, because that was not what i gathered from reading these previous posts.
What i’m reading is that st.hk has 5 active frames now, not a 5 frame startup and a improved hitbox, did i miss something?
Guy - He didn't really feel different? His target combo didn't seem all that different. MP feels a bit long and can't be used for AA so in exchange, **they buffed st.lk** and st.hk
If his EX Tatsu either locked the opponent or could be FADC'd, that would be good.
sorry to hear about you stick problem.Hope you get it fix or a friend leads you one for nec.If guy can’t be low profile from run/neck flip or elbow he be making alot of players have to honestly guess/react to thing which will add to his pressure game.Hope location tests for Ultra Street Fighter 4 at Super Arcade - Walnut, CA - Nov. 29 - Dec. 1, 2013 have marq teddy on stream.
See…even Uryo thinks EX tatsu should be FADCable. While I know where Blooddrunk is coming from, because Guy’s never had it as an option, technically in and of himself as a character he doesn’t need it. But compare him to the rest of the cast like shotos, Cammy, Adon, Dan, even Oni can now FADC his DP. Unless we want Guy to never be anything more than a solid mid-tier who is lucky to beat the top tiers in high level play (especially in long sets), we need to give him what the rest of the cast have always had. All the characters who CAN’T FADC their DP are the very same characters that Daigo said can never be high tier - Guy, T.hawk, Deejay, Balrog, Honda, etc.
3 frame FADCable DP = best possible option, high tier potential
4 frame FADCable DP = still pretty good but can be safe jumped
6 frame non-FADCable DP = a joke compared to the above 2 options. To put it on pespective, this is worse than T.hawk.
If TC hasn’t been fixed properly I’ll be dropping guy, hes just not worth the effort, not with his options against characters who TC whiffs on.
I’m trying to remember if lp Hozanto used to combo of fat standing mp in super? Think I need to load it up later and have a look. Why exactly does it have such stupidly long startup? if its because its safe on block then whats with lk BSK… why in fecks sake does his lk tatsu have such stupid startup when its so punishable on block?
Honestly I think Guys tatsus are all wrong. They should ALL be FADC’able except for HK. HK should be a fully commit anti air and Immune against Air attacks until a certain frame count. A recovery like Goukens hk tatsu whiff would be the trade off, so if you missed, you pay.
Mk tatsu, LK tatsu and ex tatsu all need to be looked at again. Changing ex tatsu to 6 frames is confusing, I don’t see why they changed it.
Nebbiez breakdown of the FADC DPs is actually spot on. Especially now that Guy has lost his 4 frame protection move and now has two (arguably useless) 6 frame reversals.
Yun had a DP that didn’t have an FADC and he was top tier… in 2012 he’s still top 10. Also it’s not that hard to react to run overhead kick. It’s one of the easiest things to see coming.
“HK should be a fully commit anti air and Immune against Air attacks until a certain frame count” if guy had that I be happy.
Guy’s Far st.hk might really be a great anti-air now so please wait til nec were I or another guy player will post how strong guy feels now.
Also anyone think that everytime guy was in a position to use EX tatsu he still would able to do so.
Example:If cr.jab is 5 frame recovery total then empty jump jab would still get them hit + now that it will hit for full damage more he would just have to do the move a few frames earlier aka it will work the same way but get you alot more damage.
Guy is a pressure character which has good corner carry can change his jump arc has alot of tools to get pass fireballs and relies on tick throw or a Cr.lk to break defensive players down capcom made guy this way.
That ST.hk buff you suggested would be absolutely broken…
All I see is you guys complaining because we don’t have something someone else has… we’re a rushdown character that would seemingly have better defensive options than almost the entire cast because we could make them stay honest for 3 bars, with which isn’t even hard to obtain because Guy can build meter quite well. If they were going to give us that, they would take away more things from Guy and then you’ll bitch about that change because you didn’t want that to happen. Put this into concept, we have combos that lead into a HKD, which leads directly into a 4 frame safejump, uncrouchable bushinflips and meaty normals, we have high damage and high stun. Easy way to bait out reversals, 2 viable anti air grab, very good normal anti airs. Decent mixups on most of the cast. We have a tatsu that beats projectiles and crushes lows. We have a tatsu that beats throws. 2 viable corner escapes. Great set of normals to boot. If you were to give Guy a DP that is FADCable that would be far too much. Some of you even still want a 0 frame U2… are you serious?
If they were to give him either one, or even both. Just imagine what would be taken away. If St.hk is in the league of cr.mp then why complain? they just gave us an anti for 100 damage 200 stun, 125/250 on counterhit… It currently works as a decent anti air that has a tendency to trade. now suddenly we might not even have it trade as often.
Thanks dude I appreciate it… Also I thought in AE there are still moves you can duck under ex hurricane kick with I thought I tested it out its still does not hit correctly. Maybe ill try again…
As for the discussion about guys hurricane kick, I dont think it needs to be FDCable. The problem with the move is that the idea behind it just doesnt work properly in the game. (besides the fireball part)… LK hurricane kick is suppose to beat all mids and throws… MK hurricane kick is suppose to beat all lows and is competely fireball invincable the whole way through… And HK is for combos and anti air…
HK is almost completely useless as a anti air. You have to make a big guess with it, and even then the priorty on it is to low to even trade. On the plus side if you do trade you can then juggle with something else but beacuse the move knocks the opponent so far back you are sent flying back to far this idea is almost completely moot.
MK hurricane kick obviously works for fireballs. And this works correctly. Akuma throws air fireballs you hurricane, viper burn kicks that counts as a projectile so hurricane, poke string to fireball from ryu ken whatever you reversal hurricane. Its simple, and brain dead and works correctly. However the low does not work correctly. To many characters have lows that hurricane kick will not hit since the hit box does not hit low enough. So your standard guessing game of run stop, throw, attack, block, or hurricane kick to beat there incoming attack does not work correctly since certain lows it just cant hit…
LK hurricane kick beats throws ok. But again now you get into the mids. OK so youd think the idea behind it is, if the opponent hits a duck lp, instead of a duck lk, This wins. Unfortuantely if the attack is even slightly to high or slightly to low you get stuffed.
And here again lies the problem. To many characters have attacks like say a duck MP, that hit box covers both a large area mid and low. And you can not beat it with anything except for a ex hurricane kick. This is the problem with it.
If the move worked correctly and its hit boxes were not so specific. You have a move that makes sense. As long as you guess right and use each hurricane kick properly you win. Thats how it should be. You dont need a added FDC on it. The move just has to work. Thats the problem.
Blooddrunk, are you forgetting the wakeup mechanic? Guy effectively lost his 4 frame safe jump now. I personally never asked for EX tatsu to be FADCable, I’m merely using it to point out that as it was, it was 4 frames and not FADCable. I never complained about that. But now they’ve gone and nerfed it to 6 frames…so I sure am gonna complain about it. I just can’t see sense in nerfing an already not so great move. Used as an anti-air you’re lucky to get 100 damage from it, invincibility frames aren’t great, 4 frames, can’t be FADCed… it was hardly a showstopper was it? Now at 6 frames it’s just garbage and a LOT of people are gonna kick up a stink about it.
Think outside the box here, If they delay their wakeup you get a opportunity for a meaty, so far is estimated the wake up delay is 3-4 frames extra. If you do runslide, fadc back dash immediate jump you get 6 or 7 frame safejump. What does that mean for anyone with a regular wakeup timing and decides to delay it, You get a safejump, but that’s not all because you can make a 50/50 if your runslide was to possibly go under the character it would then turn into a cross up. If you went for the 4 frame safe jump you can OS with cr.mk or cr.mp or whatever you decide that isn’t unsafe… and guess what. You get a meaty, the only thing you would have to worry for is if they do a reversal. Stop complaining and start adapting to what could possibly be in our future.
We haven’t seen what they meant by that hitbox change, or gone into detail on what they did to it. I wasn’t singling you out other, a lot of Guy players complain about it being 4 frame and not fadcable, I barely use it on my wake up and the only time I would primarily use it was when someone didn’t safe jump me. If I saw the meaty on my wake up and had EX tatsu buffered I would let go otherwise what is stopping me from just blocking? Eventually their blockstring will push them to where they need to do something to get back in and that’s where I can change momentum.
Even with it being 6 frames it won’t make a difference and if it carries full invincibility until strike or however long it had invincibility, you realize it will benefit much more in the OS game against certain characters,
6f startup is nothing to worry about. Just dont wake up with it so often. Its still an excellent AA. Who knows? The idea could be to extend invincibility so it doesnt trade with certain aerial moves.
Also just to point out, Guy has a very powerful Ultra, giving him FADCable EX tatsu (then into Ultra) makes him too powerful.
Hes still an improved character overall. As Blood said, we can now move onto a 100 damage normal AA, his elbow is essentially a divekick, and most importantly his ground game is improved thanks to the buffs on TC, sickle, HP hozan, and sudden stop.
I totally see where you’re coming from. I don’t think all hope is lost for Guy now at all. But I’m just tired of half the rest of the cast being able to either use DP FADC back dash as a get out of jail free card, or DP FADC forward dash as a rock/paper/scissors situation generator. I know Seth has the lowest health in the game because of this kinda shit, but let me use him as an example here for just a sec. Imagine he’s done FADC forward dash on your block. What do you do? If he goes for another DP it will break armour if you focus or EX run. It would also trade with reversal EX tatsu. If he goes for delayed or EX DP it will beat clean your EX tatsu or back dash. If he does nothing and you back dash to get the hell outta there, he gets a free punish. If you go for throw tech or cr. throw tech OS, again he can DP or normal/EX command grab to beat you. It’s a complete mess, you literally have to read or guess lucky exactly what the Seth will do and when to avoid taking some damage or risking a knockdown into mixup. Guy really suffers in these high pressure situations. Maybe you’re right that the 6 frame EX tatsu startup could end up being good if the invincibility is buffed to match. That would really help in the above Seth example that I mentioned. But surely you must see why many Guy players feel short changed that with any number of EX bars, he has never had a guaranteed get out of jail free card. He’s always forced to play rock/paper/scissors which he often loses.
