For starters his Alpha 3 iteration isn’t anywhere near his Omega iteration, the only reason close lk was usable in Alpha 3 was because you could chain cancel it into another st.lk, cr.lk or st.lp At least with Omega if the st.lk is similar to Ultra in active frames it’s currently +5, with 3 active frames you could make it +7, and I’d assume it’s positive on block. so it would have been pretty damn good.
Because if you miss the first hit for whatever reason you’ll get 2 quick hits off the remainder of the move because it still carries 3 separate hitboxes
So now it’s “pretty damn good” but before it was supposed to not have any impact whatsoever…
Nevermind, just gonna let this subforum go back to being near dead…
I don’t even see why you’re complaining, Guy is still a solid character in Ultra, and is an extradionary albeit not broken character in Omega, there’s still several things that would make Guy be broken in Omega like his elbow being an overhead and crossing up, his jump remaining the same as ultra but faster. His walkspeed be the same as Ultra, His secondary Alpha 3 target combo where he uses far HP which should be an actual command and not based on spaced for possibly more combo opportunity. Juggle off his Goraikyaku, juggle into all izunas. But that’s just omega.
His st.lk would just be for flare and likely even if it was to buffed like we asked… You’d still use cr.lk or cr.lp as a starter for pressure since you likely still do that in Omega despite the opportunity.
Improving frame advantage would be good, but using it to link Bushin Chain is pointless. What Guy really should have is a force stand normal that can link to BC, for example make cl MK force stand, since decreasing pushback in cr HP would be way too good.
If you’re playing Guy, that’s your fault. Love him, or hate him. He’s the character that you’ve chosen to play.
One character. 'Til death.
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Fresco has a pointand Guy is not fine at all. When you add a new character to the game, you gotta do some testing here and there. For Guy’s super not to connect properly (something which was a problem in previous versions) or standing chain combo (still an issue on Abel for example) is ridiculous. I mean really, it would take about 5 to 10 mins of testing per character to see if the combos actually fucking connect.
Sure this is the best version of Guy but it doesn’t mean anyones going anywhere with him. It’s taken so many years and really…it’s the best version for many characters anyway so it doesn’t matter that much…
…This game has characters that are way more fun and well-rounded. I regret not spending some time with them - than hopin
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I usually come here just to see you guys talking, but after all this time testing USF4 Guy I feel I can give some cents on this issue.
The character is better rounded than ever, there’s no doubt. Tier wise he can be placed as a solid mid, some annoying problems were fixed (walkspeed, stand short, some other hitboxes, run stop recovery), the roundhouse and sickle welcome buffs and etc.
But, FOR ME, it’s still frustrating to play him. Much effort/risk to little reward in such a way that even theoretically favorable matchups look uphill. It seems that Capcom just failed to design him as a character who actually feels fun to play with. And this has nothing to do with his strenght or hability to win, personally I find many weaker characters better in this regard. Thats it.
Not complaining at all, but after all those years I just quit. Peace.
If you find weaker characters better in regards to feeling fun to play, then play those characters. Perhaps you prefer to put even more effort in to win such as Chun. Just keep Guy as a secondary character that you know you can play, quitting is a bit dramatic because nobody is forcing you to main him.
Just remember that Guy is a balanced and solid mid tier as you said, so tearing him apart like this is a bit unfair to Capcom because its like complaining about Ryu.
Only truths here mate, maybe it’s time to try another characters and put Guy to rest. But just for a while, because my character loyalty won’t let me quit playing him. After some frustration here and there, we complain and complain but always finish giving him another try…
Sometimes taking a step away from your character is a good way to come back rejuvenated, you may have likely hit a plateau and need something to spark that edge to enhance your game is further understand of your character, even if it means playing a better character or a worse character. Maybe there’s something you need to focus on that you aren’t noticing in your game that needs elevation etc.
Yeah I’ve also had my share of griefs with this character but he’s like a son who I love even though he doesnt do as well as the cool kids.
All Guy players should learn to play a fireball character to a decent level, then play another Guy player using the fireball character.
Its a good way to really get a sense of what Guy’s strengths really are.
My disappointments with Guy aren’t with him not being a better character - quite frankly I like his high learning curve and the necessary presence of mind to play him successfully. What I don’t like are his failings in niche situations for no sensible reason.
It’s things like his jf/b.mk missing or sliding down the opponents back, when a modest shift of the hit box could stop it. Like literally - check the data and you’ll see that it’s inside his hurt box, and all I would suggest is moving it further backwards inside the hit box so it has more reliability in deep crossups. It’s not a go to a2a or poke tool anyway so no one would care.
Or similarly, bushin flip>Throw doesn’t grab focuses. I’m serious. If you do not EX the flip, the grab never starts up. Unlike other aerial moves, you are not able to grab during all your aerial frames of bushin flip. You are limited by the last X amount of frames (I’m not sure on the exact number but you can easily test hitting this grab in training for yourself). During the last X frames hitting a button does nothing, neither elbow drop nor throw. It just so happens that the position needed to grab a person in bushin flip requires you to be in these frames for most characters charging forcus. EXFlip isn’t limited so you can grab them with no problem.
Another is jumping a Banashing Flat. Just by virtue of Guy’s glide in his jump you are still comfortably in midair after jumping it. If you back jump, you can be hit by a second aa Banashing Flat before you hit the ground to block. Neutral jump allows you to be hit by a lariat, either when crossed up or not. Obviously when you are crossed up, you’re not able to hit Gief from mid air while he’s behind you.
Again, it’s these little awkward things that wind me up about the character Guy where instinctively going for the sensible option puts you at a disadvantage specifically when playing him.
Blame Capcom for making characters have a lower stance during focus attacks, that’s the reason it happens. But the Bushin flip only have a set area of the where elbow and grab will come out. Always existed like that but EX makes it unique for reason but that happens with like Cammy’s hooligan throw where the throw is only able to come out in certain frames.
The banishing flat… you can throw an aerial move out, unless it’s EX they aren’t going to AA you most likely. The crossup it happens to everyone and when you actually look at the crossups of characters most follow that same exact situation of the hitboxes… except the one special case of Hakan’s…
Yeah maybe even a character from all the other archetypes, such as grapplers, turtles, pure mixup, and gotta pick a good example out of each, I think this game has quite a handful of characters that do not benefit a player at all in strengthening their main/fundamentals or improving matchup knowledge.
When I played Guy, it pissed me off to no end that his jump is so floaty.
It was only after I played Gouken exclusively for a 3 month stint that I realised why Guy’s jump is scary enough (and why capcom is so reluctant to make it faster)- the range of Guy’s jump allows him to threaten a jump in at a range that would normally be considered “safe”. This doesn’t sound like much until you experience what it’s like to be on the other side of the match up.
Fireball characters feel like “safer” characters than rush down characters because there is a certain range where they can threaten the opponent where the opponent has no threat to offer back. The range of Guy’s jump, plus the fact that he can alter his jump arc, means that there is nowhere where a fireball character really feels “safe” throwing a fireball against Guy. That’s the true strength of Guy’s jump.
You’re right about the other character archtypes too. I used to be mad salty about the power of Yun’s rushdown and how Guy’s offense pales in comparison. But when I dabbled with Yun, I found myself really missing Guy’s superior mobility.
The Banishing Flat thing - even a light BFlat can cross you up, as you jump it and you can easily do 3k Lariat to aa a jumping Guy. While he’s behind you, there’s nothing you can do to avoid that follow up lariat to your neutral jump or a second banishing flat if you backwards jump or forwards jump. Most other characters wouldn’t need to jump because of their ability to FADC an invincible reversal. The reason you jump as Guy in the first place is to avoid either a BFlat or an SPD in one go, including chip damage. Like I said. It’s these awkward things about Guy that wind me up - I can make my piece with situations where there is only 1 specific option or reaction that works in your favour, even when it requires you to have ex meter on the back burner for emergency… but I just hate the ones where there’s no sensible response.
I’ve played a Gief player locally who often went for hard reads like just do banishing flat, and played a number online, Unless they do EX banishing flat, I can jump back and stick out a normal out, usually being j.mk if they decide to do a normal Banishing flat and I’ll hit them… Secondly if you’re neutral jumping and the only thing that Gief decides to do is AA lariat… you’re dealing with a terrible gief player because he can just snipe your jump with SPD instead as soon as you land. Technically you shouldn’t often NJ anyways unless you’re certain they are going to SPD and aim to punish heavily. So at least in my experience and matches I always had an option to stop advances unless they had EX. Also… the idea of characters with DP FADC as a safe card… it’s not. Going forward its a free punish for Gief, if you hold it, it’s still for a punish for Gief. Most characters that backdash now are -14? or worse, That’s a punish for every version of banishing flat and if he has 3 bars and does EX. RiP.
Doesn’t take a lot to train your eyes to see what to do in terms of how you or shouldn’t punish either and if the GIef doesn’t feel like doing Banishing Flat on the back dashes and you’re -14, he can do either of his two sweeps
Quickly browsed through this to see how people were feeling on Guy, there was some cynical dude complaining further up about st.lk earlier or something…idk, just sounded dumb.
I come from a Cody/DeeJay background, and let me say having made the switch Guy feels completely viable as a main, considering I played a character who in 1.03 of Ultra had every normal option excluding Super/Ultra(In some cases even U2 would get stuffed) beaten by crouching normals(DeeJay) playing Guy feels like a godsend.
Only issue I’ve really faced is that a lot of stuff whiffs on certain characters. Sakura is one that I have to do st.mp xx ender as opposed to TC xx ender purely because her hitbox is weird and st.hp whiffs at a very short range.
Aside from whiffing, he seems solid. Good normals, great pressure, solid reversal, high damage in the corner, mobility, good overhead, U2, and more. Anything particularly bad that isn’t the whiffing issues? I can’t seem to think of anything.
He’s alright, one important thing with Guy is that you have to be SMART with using run-overhead. Gunslinger isn’t the best Guy player, but he is undoubtedly the best at utilizing unpredictable run-overheads.
One big weakness with Guy is that he has to take big risks to open opponents up, yet he only has 900 stun. This makes unforgiving matchups like Zangief impossible to win if the opponent knows Guy.
I used to not mind Zangief much, because my opponents would play footsies and take equal chances, but then I went up against a famous Zangief player in Australia. He knows the Guy matchup well and will not play by your rules. He will approach you at mid range and sit crouch blocking, ready to react to ANYTHING you do. And this is a character who has superior poke damage, superior health, and superior stun gauge.
This video pretty much sums up how Guy has to be played competitively: