Guy Ultra SF4 Changes

Guy’s safe jumps should still work in Ultra, right? I’ve been trying to use the backthrow > whiff st.mk > j.mk safe jump against Yun, but Yun’s lk.Up Kicks always smacks Guy out of the air.

If that safe jump doesn’t work, what are some safe jumps that do that I should I be practicing? And if it does, how can I get it to work properly. This is literally my first time attempting to learn safe jumps at all, so I’m new to this whole concept. (All that said, the aforementioned safe jump I’ve been attempting I found in a video from like 2010 or '11)

You 100% sure you’re hitting st.mk on time? Only takes 1 frame of delay and your otherwise safe jump now gets stuffed by 4 frame reversals.

Does it have to be as early as possible, then? There is a possibility that I was delaying it very slightly.

It’s exact. The standing mk is supposed to delay your jump by a specific amount of frames so that when you fall in your mid air normal, the opponent wakes up on the last frame you’re in the air, making a 4 frame safe jump.

ST.HK works as well i believe.

His throw-based safe jumps aren’t as easy as you might think. You have to know down to the 60th of a second exactly when Guy recovers from the back throw to pull out the standing mk. The reason for this is because of how the game engine doesn’t allow you to mash normals, meaning spamming mk after a back throw won’t guarantee that the game will give you st.mk on the first available frame like it would Ex.BSK on wake up for instance. If you’re perfect in your safe jump setup up, then only those pesky 3-frame DPs will get you.

Miss by 1 frame and then a myraid of new reversals, along with Yun’s up-kicks will be stuffing you as well. Miss by 3 frames (the typical reaction off-set) then pretty much any sensible reversal will be able to anti-air you on wake up. Compare this to the fact your opponent will be doing their reversal on wake - meaning they are performing a special move after a knockdown which gives a 10-ish frame window before you wake up to input a special move to have it stocked to go on the first frame you’re free to move and you understand how easy it is to mistime and get wrong.

That’s disheartning. I’m honestly not confident I could hit something like that consistantly in an online environment.

It is what is. Thank you for breaking it down.

It’s those 1-frame links. It’s more unfortunate the safe jump is measured by the used of a normal. If we had a special move we could use, the timing would be more lax, but the idea of whiffing a move for the purpose of a safe jump is that you want to ‘waste’ a specific amount of time after using a move that gave your opponent a hard knockdown so that you can jump at them and have them wake up on the last frame you’re doing your attack in the air.

Funnily enough, say you do hit the standing mk on time, immediately after pressing the button you can just hold :uf: as it will naturally jump on the first frame you’re done whiffing.

But 1-frame links are not an easy notion to grasp, and the safe jump setups are even worse because you’re not even timing yourself against a hit confirm in a typical 1FL combo. You throw, sometime later they are KD’d. Some time after that you can move, lol.

Just plink the normal, but I do believe if you do MK at the very moment you recover you aren’t doing a safejump as the normal won’t hit but test it out.

But the normal wouldn’t hit while the opponent is KD’d anyway - the whiff is intentional, right?

I meant the jump in normal, i’ve done MK on the very perfect frame cause I plink a lot for setups and I’ve had the jump in normal whiff.

OOOOOH - yes, the classic “sometimes will whiff” cross up mk of Guy. Tell me again why it would be op for this to connect reliably?

I’ve been testing stHk, stMp ~ Run Slide, FADC back dash ambiguous cross ups on Ryu and I can’t seem to get Ryu’s crMk to make Guy’s Elbow Drop or Cross up Mk to whiff. Either I’m timing it wrong or something changed?

Again, you’re wrong. I’m talking about whiffing the st.mk to create the safejump. IF you time st.mk perfectly after the back throw recovery frames finish, and do a jump forward normal, the normal will whiff because the jump is far too early for the move to hit. Hence why I stated st.hk was better at least in AE, where if you did a whiff st.hk on the exact frame you recover and did a jump forward attack it’ll be a 4f safe jump.

I never said it was OP I stated the areas you are saying it whiffs, it whiffs for other characters as well.

Similar to how Guy’s wakeup animation will cause moves to whiff because he is outright crouching which lowers his hitbox, hence why if you do the Runslide Safejump on Guy and he doesn’t block the st.hp will more than likely whiff. Things whiff because of the hurtboxes, not because of the move. Hence why Rose and Sim are normally a pain to crossup with it comes to their wakeup.

Also… shouldn’t even be complaining about Guy’s cross up in this game, be happy he has one because in the Alpha series, Elbow was your crossup tool cause j.mk rarely crossed up because that was hardly it’s intention at all. And elbow required spacing.

I wasn’t referring to you with that remark. I was commenting on how it never went under any changes during the lead up to Ultra’s release. Plus, I wasn’t referring specifically to crossing up on wake up, just general use of the move where it can slide down the backs of the opponent without even grazing them.

Then why did you quote me?

Cross ups happen like that… alot in SF4.

I was quoting you because the first sentence was in reply, when I thought you were talking about air.mk. The second statement was just me striking up conversation.

Never done thorough testing, but one frame links in SF4 seem far easier than in other games, even disregarding plinking.

I’m fairly sure there’s at least a 1 frame buffer for normals.

Maybe so. That doesn’t change the the fact for every frame you’re slow you add an extra frame or leniency for wake up reversals.

Don’t forget that there’s always the fear of an empty jump.