Meh - empty jumps when you’re safe anyway?
Empty jump low can catch a lot of folks.
Some character specific stuff I found in Ultra: 1. Vs M. Bison; Ninja Sickle punishes Fierce and Ex Scissor Kick on block. This is a good corner punish; Ninja Sickle, Ex Hozanto, FADC Forward Dash Ultra 1 = 544 dmg - 400 stun. 2. Vs Gouken; in the corner you can do crHp, TC ~ Low Hozanto into meterless Ultra 1. 3. Vs Ryu, Ken; In or near the corner you can do Cross Up Mk, stMk, TC into whatever against them standing now.
Distance? I know I can punish a Fierce Scissor kick at point blank range - that’s why legit bison players don’t use it close.
Regarding all of the talk about safe jumps from AE 2012 to USFIV:
Back Throw > st.MK > Jump Attack was never a frame perfect safe jump setup. It always required some form of manual timing on the player’s part, since the back throw grounded opponents for 69 frames against characters with normal wake up timing. Guy’s jump with an attack had a total of 44 frames, resulting in a 25-frame window to whiff an attack. In AE 2012, st.MK had a total of 21 frames.
Back Throw > st.HK > Jump Attack was a frame perfect 4-frame safe jump against Sagat and Cammy in AE 2012. It was a 5-frame safe jump against characters with normal wake up timing. However, with the changes to st.HK in USFIV, I’ll need to do some testing to see if this setup still applies. It likely won’t because st.HK now has reduced start up.
Back Throw > Back Dash > Jump Attack should still work as a frame perfect 4-frame safe jump against Sagat and Cammy (and 5-frame safe jump setup against characters with normal wake up timing), assuming nothing else changed.
(Haha, “extremely difficult to time.” I have old man hands.)
Dope ass groundwork str[e]ak. I guess that the first backthrow safe jump is corner only, due to the “close hp” at the beginning?
Yup, just covering all bases.
Doesn’t ibuki wake up faster? Unless that’s only in certain situations
Awesome breakdown streak. Any idea how many frames forward throw leaves them on hkd?
Well in AE 2 perfect run stops and a forward would be a safejump if I remember correctly, so that be 21+21+44= 86 for the normal folks, believe Dudley got up at 85? I know for a fact from the forward throw he got up quicker since someone did a sheet on it for the forward throw atleast
Hmm has Guy taken stun nerfs or has seemingly the whole cast got a whole lot tougher? For example earlier I was putting a BEAT DOWN on a Ryu, literally didn’t stop hitting him the entire round. In very quick succession (fast enough that his stun meter would not have recovered) I hit him with: st. HK Bushin Chain > EX hozanto, run overhead (2 hits), normal overhead x 2, run overhead (antiair 2 hits) > HK tatsu juggle… I got him down to literally 5 pixels of life left before he was dizzy. Seriously, wtf? With the exception of the odd red focus combo here and there, 99% of my play is exactly the same but I’ve noticed I don’t seem to be getting nearly as many dizzies as I used to.
And on the subject of dizzies…Hugo. What is up with that dude? Why does it take him like 10 seconds to get his ass up when he’s dizzy? The number of times I’ve miscalculated a jump in or whiffed a level 3 focus against him while he’s STILL waking up is ridiculous!
I think she had odd wake up timing in Super, but I think Capcom normalized it in AE. However, I do recall whiffing safe jumps before, so it could be only in certain situations.
My numbers were taken from Jalass’s [frame advantage thread](Guy’s Frame Advantage and Setups All of the numbers weren’t tested in AE/AE 2012, and I honestly haven’t done much testing in USFIV. Before I stopped playing the game frequently, I was working on compiling these numbers into quick notes, but I never finished:
The biggest issue is that wake up timing for all characters really isn’t as consistent as we hope.
I’m probably going to continue to working on these notes before Evo, so whenever I’m done, I’ll share if you Guys want.
Soon we’ll have to work on DWU when the time comes around.
This is amazing true, yet makes sense to me because it’s been so hard to find a true safe jump off forward throw. I’m sure that Sagat, cammy, decapre and blanka are the only characters in the game with different wake up timings. Guy’s forward throw is the only move in the game that creates these anomalies.
Guy’s forward throw is nowhere near the only move in the game that creates variable frame situations btw.
Learn something new everyday
It differs between laying upwards and downwards. Also quickstands differ there too
Guys, how good is Guy’s cr mp as an aa in Ultra? I heard it was nerfed so I’ve tried sticking to st HK instead but it’s far more situational.
St.HK isn’t really that situational, and Cr.mp is only good really at max distance against most jumpins, otherwise you run the risk of trade/getting beat.
I gotta say, even though a slight change, Guys walk speed is WAY better. Its much easier to walk forward for TC / tech trap mixups. And against an opponent who respects your space, its now easier to simply walk up and throw.
And that buff on TC makes it incredibly strong against Dudley and other big hurt chars. TC xx LP hozanto will connect from an unbelievable range.