The problem I find with stun is half the time, they end up dizzy after a pretty big combo to start with, so even raw ultra does pretty puny damage after that. The golden ticket is if you get an anti-air run overhead into HK tatsu juggle. If that causes dizzy, you can get a hella damaging combo after that. I just find a lot of the time they get dizzy off a bushin chain or something stupid, by which point damage scaling renders the dizzy state kinda pointless unless you risk a reset.
Well RFC is mainly used to dish out damage and set up for potential stun. Guy only can really achieve that with the bigger guys where its a huge threat.
Other best case scenario is if you can limit the RFC as much as possible, still on average unless its a wide body combo, Guy’s potential seems to be around 370 for damage and 6xx mark.
The usf4 pc mod let’s guy combo off Run OH on some characters. Probably because of hitstun of first hit pushing them.
Also D. MP ELBOW drop seems to crossup because of the bigger hitbox.
Can people test these out in the usf4 even in NY.
Also IROC unless you land a jump and are in the corner you’ll only gain close to 1 bar. In the corner though you can do the big body combo into Runslide off a j.hp cl.hp RFC and you’ll get 1 bar, Besides Sakura unless in Ultra Cl.HK TC works on her and everyone of course, You can do that combo into LP hozanto HK tatsu ender and gain one bar damage wise and stun
this is basically Guy’s only useful spots to utilize the 3 bar scenario well on everyone. These are off Jump Heavy, St. Heavy RFC
(Corner)Cl HK TC LP Hoz, HK tatsu 432/771,
CL.HK. CR.MP MK Tatsu - (3 hits on tatsu) 439/755 (2 hits) 419/735
Big Body into RSL 451.795.
Cl.HK, St.MP MK tastu - (3 hits) 434/755 (2 hit) 414/735
Midscreen wise you can whatever you feel like using for whatever situation you personally want your damage will be in the general 400 area and stun in the 700 area. So choose between Chain, TC, or Cr.HP St.Mp
Best case scenario for 4 bar usage off those same combos and additional combos in the corner
Using EX hozanto and HK tatsu Ender
CL HK TC-444/789
CL.HK St.MP/Cr.HP St.MP-449/800
CL.HK Cr.MP - 454/800
Big Body -472/855
So if you don’t have Ultra or Super present and want to do an RFC off punishes (this will do less damage and stun in those areas.
If you don’t feel like using Super go for the 4 bar ones, Fair warning if you plan to stun after you’ll need to a heavy, a throw or 2 Heavy attacks or Medium+Heavy in some cases to the best case scenario, After this will give you around 970-997 damage if you have a fully stocked Ultra after Stun
Obviously depending on you get the stun you can use 1/2 heavy attacks before the Ultra Example : J.HP, Sickle Ultra for optimal damage 521
Don’t use Focus Attack.
Examples:
521+472 = 993
Stun off a Heavy
523 +472= 995
Stun off a medium (works on anyone with 900/950 stun)
I used Cl.MK
502+472= 974
And for anyone above 1000 stun 2 Heavies
525/472= 997
These are the only way Guy can get close to round ender or achieve a round ender. obviously this requires the corner in most cases for the best opportunities but can be possible mid screen (can’t kill)
Corner:
To kill anyone that has 1000 stamina you will need a CH on the 4 Bar RFC Combo (max damage possible one) and the Stun Combo (Must be a heavy unless they have 950 and below stun you can use a medium there) Applies to Widebodies only everyone else you’ll get 999 ( i know… it sucks but its funny)
You can kill off 3 Bar in the same scenario but you must use Cl.HK Chain HK tatsu and must land a heavy depending on who you are facing but you’ll be granted 1000 after Ultra lands
Which means anyone 1050+ is unable to be KO’d by these but obviously close if you were put into that situation, but obviously from the flow of the game you’ll likely kill anyone at this point unless they got a perfect round almost on you.
Done here.
At least in the mod, you can do some setups for crossup elbow, strict timing but at least in the corner we can get that cross up but land in front business. It does make already existing cross up setups easier though if the NY event carries over the ability.
One thing I should mention as this may exist in the console version, but Guy’s Safejump from runslide does not work, as people get up later so your norma whiffs, I’m unsure if this is due to the mod itself but in any case, you can throw your normal out and 3 frame DPS won’t hit you.
I do remember this wasn’t the case when i tested Ultra at NEC, cause I was able to safejump and had an OS for incase they delayed wakeup and didn’t reversal. Though when console comes around I want to test OS Cr.HK vs OS Sickle, cause if HK hits meaty enough where 3 frame DPs and possibly 2 frame supers can’t punish me. Ill be quite pleased.
Here’s some counter-hit stuff with RFC and U2.
Alright so Kreymore went to the Ultra test in NY today,
St.HK is probably one of the best normals in the game, alongside Guy’s st.mk he is almost a wall and he feels st.mk may have gotten a hitbox buff
Cr.MP is almost the same as AE, just trades doesnt really feel different,
Walk speed is noticeable he states its similar to Bisons so able to walk in and start an offensive approach.
TC he says doesnt feel any different or may be betterm conisdering this was a large event he may not have had time for extensive testing.
Ninja Sickle is indeed 7 frame start up, this changes many things as Guy’s go to combos for Ultra for punishes are now going to be Cr.HP Ninja sickle.
EX tatsu remains 4 frames.
Feels U2 will be more usable in certain matches due to RFC.
On the other scale Redman spoke to Marq Teddy and Marq feels Guys even matchups may have gotten harder, idk if I can agree with that because Marq always used that run and gun style rather than focus on fundamentals and a ground game which USF4 is started to turn towards so maybe he just needs to adjustment his game properly, Run and Gun will still work I’m sure but with how the USF4 game is shaping up he may need to tweak or add things to his game that he never did all too much,
I believe Marq is referring more to the buffs that other characters have received, rather than just Guy’s own changes. It’s easy to think how the buffs your own character receives will change the game, but you have to remember a lot of the rest of the cast have received considerable buffs too, some of which may aid them in the Guy matchup.
I’m liking the sound of Guy’s changes though. I’m wondering about the elbow drop hitbox buff. I know in the mod it allows for fake crossups etc, but surely someone has just guessed the new hitbox size and this may not be at all similar to what is actually in Ultra? And even so, if the hitbox is increased downwards (but not sufficiently to hit low profile normals), doesn’t that mean it will connect earlier, thus giving your opponent more time to recover? Say you do forward jump elbow drop on Sagat and try to combo into bushin chain…will Sagat now have enough recovery to be able to tiger uppercut you before you can combo? Is the hit stun still the same? In which case, particularly against taller members of the cast, the elbow drop ‘buff’ is actually more of a nerf.
That is actually what I’m concerned by too. It’s easily possible in AE 2012 alone to get a counter hit with both cr.HK and d.mp elbow drop and still be punished with an SPD or DP before recovery had finished. Now you have to question whether the hit box increase is actually a positive. Being able to hit your opponent but also making it much more likely you’ll get punished for connecting? Seems short sighted.
They may have secretly buffed the hitstun who knows, they did buff Deejays kneeshot which may have been for the fact Hugo was added? I know at the peak of hitting like Seth at his head on block is -2.
… He walks as fast as Bison?
Yeah if Hugo gets a free SPD punish off elbow drop and/or bushin flip elbow on block (or worse, on hit!), that matchup is going to be an absolute nightmare. Considering his ridiculous poke footsie game, backbreaker antiair, 2 hit armour EX clothesline, faster than normal focus attack…I already think the Hugo match is gonna be a nightmare for Guy and other non-projectile/zoning characters.
Time will tell…
Kreymore felt it was similar to Bison, probably making a similarity like how Bison could always walk in/out to start something.
He should be as fast as Bison, I want to be a scumbag.
I posted a video of the stream that has Kreymore in it, should be timestamped already as he posted it, so you can make judgement there.
As fast as Bison?
Isn’t he the fsstest in the game along with akuma ac chun. I would have been happy with a sak/adon walk speed. But Damn bison?
I guess that means he’s much faster than in the mod.
I think it may just be exaggerated personally but I think he just made a comparison onto how Guy feels now with that walkspeed.
True that. The unfortunate thing about Guy not being a popular character choice is that people who have the tools to break down frame data don’t have the interest/notion to check things like the best and worst frame advantage for elbow drop.
I’m most concerned about what happens on hit and counter hit with the elbow drops. Guy should never be negative on hit with either move. I did some testing. It’s possible for Ryu and Ken to punish a standing elbow drop with super after it has hit. You can’t hit elbow deep since you use it to cut into the arc of Guy’s floaty jump, meaning you’ll be dropping down from above in most rational situations, where the box of the elbow will be active well before it overlaps the hurtbox of the opponent. They stand, and you’re hitting them at the earliest possible time of your descent (maximum frame disadvantage right?) Seeing as in order to hit elbow “deep” where by the first active frame the hitbox is comfortably lower down in the hurtbox of your opponent you need to make a jump in which the likes of air mk, hk or hp would have likely hit anyway, elbow on hit should never put you negative.