I remember how broken Alpha 1 was with the links it had coupled with the amount of hitstun some normals carried.
Alpha2 Guy had some serious run - stop pressure. all hail c.mk cancellable on 1st hit!
[quote=“Aquashark, post:862, topic:162778”]
Alpha2 Guy had some serious run - stop pressure. all hail c.mk cancellable on 1st hit!
[/quote]Walk speed and bushing flip speed cemented run-stop pressure. It stopped your opponent from getting lax just because you weren’t doing run stop specifically.
Except most of those things are incredibly punishable for what he was doing, he just made sure his opponents never caught on and when they did he popped CC.
lol that a2 video is hella misleading by what you said. That guy was abusing the game system where as the other people were not. Thats not guys run stuff itself being good, thats the game is silly in that there is a constant threat of being blown out/random supered CC and losing life all the time. A lot of that stuff guy was getting away with was being punished as well. The opponent could easily as well just CC to get through it if they wanted to continue to another mind game. But they didnt so they were just getting scrubbed out. Guy has a lot of flaws as a character in that game. A ton of his moves are punishable even on hit in it.
Pretty much, Guy was kinda abysmal in A2, St.HP would whiff on half of the cast when crouching even at point blank, none of his bnb strings were really safe unless you spaced Hozanto where most lights wouldn’t hit, but could still lose to CCs if I remember correctly. Run Overhead was useless, Elbow drop period was basically useless, if they blocked you’d get CC’d or thrown, not at all a good risk to do. His supers aren’t all that great considering you could get better damage off CCs. His hurricane kicks hit on both sides but only MK had any invincibility (low). So Guy lost to highs for free on wakeup. Cr.mk cancel was garbage even if it was possible nothing you did out of it was a true string or safe for that matter. Besides Bushin Flip you had no answers for fireballs without meter. Bushin Chain… don’t even bother, it can whiff on the last hit and you can get punished. Guy had plenty of shortcomings in A2 he was low/bottom tier.
I always wanted to pickup another character to cover Guy’s bad match ups, Sagat seemed to fit that bill but I didn’t find him fun to play, where as I found Evil Ryu really fun to play but not a very good character, hopefully that’s changed now that some people are saying he’s the strongest shoto ?.
I’m also dying to try out Poison in Ultra.
Sagat and Guile could cover his matches well enough, I’ve seen a few go to Rose as well.
And for some reason a lot of Guy players like Yang. myself included (3s Main)
I think that may be because they have a similar pressure based game, but use different tools to go about it.
Guy is being considered top 5 by some people too all of a sudden. Apparently he’s the only one Japanese care about next to Juri/Sagat.
Nah he’s a lot better that’s for sure, but it’s far too early to call him top tier. A lot of the reason is the 2 frame EX tatsu that’s special cancellable. Nobody can safe jump him and he’s kinda broken. This has already been nerfed back to how it is in AE2012 for the console version.
He is definitely stronger now, and the delayed wakeup mechanic won’t affect him because he can delay his jump in setups accordingly on reaction. But I honestly don’t think the console version will be top tier, just a higher level mid tier I suspect.
He’ll be Top 10 but not Top 5 is my guess.
Guy is top 10, for me ranked 7th.
IMO Red Focus is the real win for Guy in USF4. Red Focus makes TC now even more dangerous. What Guy player doesn’t land 1 or 2 TC’s during a match? TC, Red Focus crumple, Ultra 2 is going to net you some where around 500 damage easy. Before Ultra 2 was considered a punish ultra, now anytime you gain 3 bars, it can be considered an offensive ultra because of TC. Red Focus, buffed TC, faster walk speed and faster Run Stop all compliment each other in ultra. Guy’s pressure game is now all the sudden considered dangerous, especially when Guy achieve 3 bars and a loaded ultra. Also put into play that Guy builds meter fast. so will Guy become more of a second round character such as Gen? I’m thinking if Guy players strategise to save at least 1 or 2 bars going into the second round, Guy can achieve 500 plus damage off of a random TC. Of course it won’t be as good as Gen’s but you get the idea. So I say Guy ranked 7th imo.
Eh I’d likely still use U1 overall, sure having the possibility of U2 off the red focus is nice but for 3 bars and Ultra that’s pretty heavy considering to get around that amount of damage you’d need full Ultra. I’ve even gone into thinking about if Red Focus would sincerely benefit Guy as a whole. Midscreen you can get U1 and U2, and in the corner you can still FADC into U1 for less/same meter and possibly do more damage. Opponent is locked into the corner and you have a longer knockdown to work with. Plus if it only nets you to the most of 500 its almost not worth it to spend the 3 bars if you can have super stocked as we all know most of the combos into Super will do significantly more damage than into Ultra. When Ultra drops we’ll see how the damage benefits Guy, and if W Ultra is at all useful.
I’m curious mostly about the damage output of TC ~ Red Focus crumple into Ultra 1 or 2 vs TC ~ Low Hozanto, Ultra 1 in the corner.
I really like Air’s idea of using counter hit st. MP > ninja sickle > ultra 1 in the corner. The increased walk speed will make it easier to score counter hit st. MP, and even from practically mid screen you can confirm into ninja sickle > EX hozanto FADC ultra 1. That would be a hella damaging way to use 3 bars, especially if you had full ultra meter stocked.
Although I do think W ultra would definitely have its uses too. Then you have all the utility of ultra 1, and if your opponent screws up and goes for a safe jump or unsafe move, you can get a free punish. It will force your opponent to play more risk free or get blown up for their trouble.
I am dreading W ultra grapplers though, so I guess the door swings both ways on that one.
I’ve got the ultra mod that’s been updated to the arcade version, I’ll list numbers shortly also I don’t think air meant mp… I think he meant cr.hp which would still work does 602 which currently works in AE its a strict link though.
Whiff punish far MP xx red focus -> U2, would that work? I was thinking if we can poke Gief and the other big chars with far HP, you confirm it with far MP xx red, ultra.
With testing out of a close HP RFC xx U1 does less damage than Cl HP, LP Hoz FADC Ultra 1, that’s 477 vs 504.
Close HP RFC U2 does 497 , while a full normal Focus lvl 3 does 499, and Raw Level 3 Red focus into Ultra does 564.
So really unless you have the read or primarily going to use U2 for 3 bars, in most cases U1 will be better off for FADCs than off RFC unless it’s to end the round.
Even then for RFC for something similar to what Kazunoko did for Yun isn’t very useful either because Guy doesn’t get the same 50/50, unless you’re in the corner or go a hard knockdown and you’re opponent DWUs but you can still get damage and stun.
(Midscreen example)
The basic heavy punish from Guy, Cl HK, Chain, EX hozanto does 344/503, But Cl HK TC RFC, Cl. Hk cr.MP Runslide/EX Hoz will only up the damage to around 375/78 and the stun will be around 608/638. What Kazu did netted him 442/725.
So really Guy doesn’t benefit greatly from RFC unless you’re positive on getting the next combo and have the ability to dish out 400 stun minimum other wise you just wasted 3 bars for almost no buff in damage and Guy doesn’t have an easy 50/50 from any of those situations to get him that easy stun that Yun is capable if getting.
This is off the mod though, maybe red focus carries different properties, I’ve heard from someone at ECT that red focus doesn’t scale, if that’s true then it may have better chances but I’m unsure as I wasn’t there.