I don’t seeing it being that kind of matchup… maybe Honda but Oni, nah. Not everyone thing is set in stone and maybe at worst being 6.5 but being a 7 and up… let’s not get a little over dramatic… remember playing in a long set, is different than playing a 2/3 or 3/5. You have more time to adapt and figure out your opponent and change your strategy without going into autopilot.
Who plays Oni there? I mean loyally.
In my state, no one good anyways, who I’ve faced. Chris Hu. Another notable Oni is Sanford, his is getting up there.The match is nothing but ground game, especially when you can do away or block the air shenanigans, the only thing to worry about is his slashes and being able to react to crossup/noncrossup.
The problem is that his ground pokes out-prioritise everything Guy can do on the ground. He can pretty much keep walking safely towards you safely cancelling pokes into fireballs. His fireballs are so fast he can practically use them as a poke tool. Plus with 3 bars he can do a 50-60% combo, which is outrageous considering he can build that much meter in about 20 seconds just by poking and chipping away with fireballs. I would love to see you play a FT10 with overmostheads to see if you can adapt to anything he does. Most of the time he wins 10-2 or 10-3 against me. I call that a matchup just as bad, if not worse than Honda or Zangief. Not to mention all of his buffs allegedly coming in Ultra.
Any time I do a FT to anything I’d rather it be offline. Since OMH is from Europe that isn’t easily possible, granted I can play you, you and I can both agree that there is a slight bit of delay in the connection when we did, but I wouldn’t consider Oni over Honda or Gief. You also have to remember knowing the matchup and the player plays a big part in any set.
I think its more about him being a better player than you or even just knowing the matchup better than you, and not the matchup being so awful. I would say its 5-5, or maybe slight advantage Oni.
I agree. Take someone like Akuma for instance, Oni is nowhere near as troublesome as him, it really comes down to the knowledge of the player, and since there are few good Oni players, you’re simply not used to the effective spacing of his attacks, cr MP works great against him, except f HP, you’d want to read that with MP hozanto or whiff punish with far MP.
If slash pressure gives you trouble, U2 that shit.
Putting Oni on the same level as Gief? Naaah…
people people people… lets relax and take a deep breath. “REMEMBER” there’s a lot of things that are unsure for ultra. “REMEMBER” delay wakeup “REMEMBER” red focus “REMEMBER” double ultra (even tho i dont think this will be useful for guy)… everything thats out now is not set in stone. i think, especially delay wakeup, the new mechanics of the game are gonna make guy’s bad matchups not that bad… so just relax and can we all take a deep breath and not over react to everthing we read online… OMG people are thinking of droping guy cause they see e.ryu is getting this and getting that… u know what i say to that, deuces… see ya… when guy is fully patched and playing they way he’s supposed to be playing, the true hardcore guy players will have the last laugh… u guys are complaining about things that are true “NOW”, but until we get our hands on the full version, we just have to “RELAX”… WOOOSAAAA MY FRIEND… WOOOSAAA…
Take into account that they are going to make it notable to when you do delay wakeup in some way. When at NEC some folks had delayed wakeup strats. Delayed wakeup last roughly… 11 frames so Guy’s Ninja sickle even when changed is a useful OS. You’ll hit on the 2nd portion of the attack so a wake up grab etc will not work. With Red Focus against Oni won’t be good, if he cancels into slash you’ll either get crossed up or armor broken.
So I talked to Combofiend a little at the Singapore loketest. He seems really passionate about making Ultra the most balanced iteration ever and that makes me happy even though I have my doubts whether that’s possible with so much new stuff happening at the same time.
The bad news:
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Guy is not going to get his old crouch MP back. Specifically, the hitbox will remain as good as it is in AE but the hurt box is going to remain nerfed, so that you can still use cr.MP as an anti-air, but it’s gonna trade in a lot more situations. Combofiend stated that the purpose of this was to get Guys to use different moves to anti-air.
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When I asked about the possibility of giving more vacuum to Ex Tatsu, he just explained that the buffs to Ex Tatsu have been focused mainly on making sure that it doesn’t whiff against low profile attacks. Getting all the hits to connect more consistently just doesn’t seem to be an important goal.
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He confirmed that jump d.MP whiffing against low profile attacks still is something that’s intended, although it will hit a bit better against some moves.
The good news:
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I told him that I understood why Capcom didn’t want to let d.MP hit low profile, but Capcom should really consider adjusting j.MK so that it doesn’t whiff against low profile. Combofiend thought that this was a very reasonable and good suggestion and said he would pass it on.
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I also mentioned that f+MP currently only gets 1 hit against crouching Sagat and some other characters. He seemed totally surprised by this. Hopefully this means that he’s going to pass it on.
Conclusion:
I hear there are more loketests coming up. Hopefully more players stress on the importance of getting j.MK buffed so that it hits low profile. That single buff definitely sounds reasonable enough for the designers not to pooh pooh (unlike the buffed TC which was buffed then taken away because it seemed to good), while making Guy’s offense a lot stronger.
^^ Good stuff man. Also any news on St.LK being Alpha status?
OTinhoso is our next man to bug combofiend as there is going to be another Japanese location test. Please do bring up j.MK and Overhead not hitting twice bugs. As these two seem like things they will fix if the dev team gets the info.
Also stress on Vaccum effect for Ex tatsu so all hits can connect.
And as well all know combofiend was a Guy player , so I am sure he is aware of some stuff people asked like Faster jump , Elbow Chip damage. But he aint gonna put it in if dev team feels its broken.
I don’t want a faster jump man, it’ll ruin a few things like his jump in attacks may suffer something. Considering the way they’ve been bufffing and nerfing some characters with these trade offs, Though about the EX tatsu, I did notice it hit more consistently when used as an AA. But I couldn’t test against the likes of Akuma or anyone that would pass through… I think there were only 3 or 4? But I normally was getting 3 hits consistently.
^^ I just want the team to be aware of the issues. Like for example he didnt know about F.MP whiffing first hit. Let them decide whats broken and whats not.
I really hope they consider adding vacuum effect for Ex tatsu. Some characters fly off too far in first hit and not easy to get the other hits.
A faster jump with guy would be crazy after I saw that Chun Li jump speed idk if I want that But put it in a test build and see if it needed,broken or balance.
We’re not asking for a “crazy” jump - we’re talking about him having a *normal *jump. Guy doesn’t have jumping FIERCE FIERCE or anything like that - and even so, doesn’t Gen have a double hitting heavy in the air AND a fast jump?
There’s no need to test if the jump is **needed **since the game’s been out so long, with Guy in it. Slow jump= easier to anti-air and less chance of punishing fireballs cos you don’t come down as fast…if you don’t think a frame or 2 makes a difference in this game then I’ve nothing to say.
Take this example, try punishing Sagat’s low fireball by jumping really late with Guy. You have to wait longer until a normal can actually reach him, by which time he can actually recover.
It pisses me off when Guy players say he doesn’t need the NORMAL traits most, if not all characters have in this game, such as a normal jump speed and FADCable reversal. If you don’t wanna use ex tatsu FADC the don’t use it - but allow Guy to simply have the option.
You will have to convince Capcom that his wakeup is weak. The option would certainly be nicer to have rather than not at all, but Im afraid they would take away something to make up for it, such as nerfing U1s damage.
But hey Cody and Rose can fadc their ex bingo and drill, so why not right? Oni is also getting the option.
Trust me even if we were given an fadc, I guarantee no one is going to want blow 3 bars and get nothing for it, That’s the thing about FADC, everyone that has one generally gets something for it, we wouldn’t outside of the corner. Plus it’s been loketest after loketest and that was in the original demands list… they didn’t put it in for a reason. I wouldn’t say his wakeup is weak but I don’t tend to wake up spending meter.
The problem with the jump is… if they make his jump faster, that changes his setups and we lose our safejump from run slide. I’d rather keep what we have since it actually does give us a few benefits rather than lose the initial good part of it and have to switch it around to compensate, having to do manual safe jumps isn’t exactly !00% guarantee. The only benefit we get from a faster jump is able to punish fireballs slightly easier and possibly have some better ambiguous cross ups but even I’d have to say that doesn’t seem to be a better trade off if we lose the initial pressure options and former crossup setups.
I want ex tatsu fadc only on hit haha…
Ex tatsu - fadc - ex hoz. Its like when you are pinned down in some pressure and BAM opponent is in the corner.
Exactly. SSF4 isn’t always about conserving your meter and sometimes you just have to surprise your opponent somehow. Not to mention, if they see you have three bars and they’re doing a meaty on you from the corner, I’m sure it’ll give them something to think about ,instead of going in on Guy for free- why should I block if I can do wake up tatsu> ultra 1?
As for his jump, his neutral jump should stay the same for the safe jump setup, only changing the back and forward jumps.
But see afo you’re thinking this the wrong way, if you were to go for EX tatsu xx Ultra one and they were doing a meaty on you in the corner, that won’t work because you’re the one in the corner. If the opponent sees you with 3 bars and knows you can FADC they aren’t going to put themselves in that situation at all if you’re the one in the corner, that just gives you breathing for very little damage, I think the most we could do off of that meterless depending on how the opponent floats away from Guy is HK tatsu or EX Hozanto for 1 bar, damage wise that isn’t much for spending 3 or full bar. It would surprise someone but all of those options reset the neutral, then it comes into play of gaining the upperhand and moment. If they have the life lead they are just going to sit on it. We don’t have any bar to promote any way of closing the gap anymore, and if we get a knockdown we lose most of our options to pressure because they carry meter enough to do whatever is needed to keep us honest depending on the character.
Gotta look at it all ways to honestly see if its worth it, Rufus benefits from it because he easily leads to Ultra and he has 3 options out of EX messiah, plus without ultra he can still do hefty damage with EX Snake strike for damage/stun and corner push much more. I just don’t see it actually helping out in a better reward factor as the FADC does for other characters.