Guy Ultra SF4 Changes

a faster jump wouldn’t make guy lose his safejump setups. it would just be different. as it is now… all you do is hold up after the runslide hits. if his jump were faster all you would have to do is possibly throw out a whiffed normal as a timing mechanism then hold up for the safe jump. this is just an example. there’s no telling how it would change. this is mostly how other characters with faster jumps do their safejumps. guy wouldn’t lose any of his safejumps. you’d just have to change the way they were done. that’s how safe jumps are found in the 1st place… using timing mechanisms like whiffed normals.

i’d welcome a faster jump. not being able to anticipate a fireball … jump and punish it is something guy is lacking. it changes a lot about fireball matchups by making the opponent less liberal with their fireballs. as guy is now. having to focus absorb or ex runslide to punish a fireball is ass(i refuse to use shoulder as a fireball punish… it’s just too slow). and as far as i can think of… guy is the only one with a normal slide right now that can’t go under fireballs. hell ibuki can go under low tiger shots and she’s sitting upright while our boy is LAYING DOWN during his slide and can’t go under anything.

Like I said, if the opponent was doing a meaty FROM the corner i,e they’re in the corner.
And high level players actually DO use 3 bars of meter to escape situations or play offensiely…think Ibuki.

But the point was to give Guy an extra tool to escape pressure. A risk-free one like Ryu’s. Cancellable only on hit sort of nulls that, it’d just be asking for an easier way to combo into Ultra 1, nothing more.

It’d be the same issue Oni has. Defense is crucial.

Guy’s faster normals being his lights are 13 frames total. They aren’t about to buff Guy’s jump to that extreme, so you’d have to manually time it which wouldn’t be easy from runsliide and off throws would require normals or manual timing. I’ve had success with MP hozanto on reaction to fireballs including Deejay, the only person you can’t is Guile because of how slow his fireball travels you’ll get hit by it. Including other Guy players both online and offline, so you must suffer from having bad reactions :l. Here’s the issue with that slide though, ours knocks down during the first 5 active frames. It used to go under fireballs pre SSFIV release (check the trailer vid). Everyone else with a slide can’t knockdown and only Rose can combo off hers if she scores a counterhit most of the time. My guess is, considering Guy’s range on his slide, the startup, and the ability to knockdown would have been a little too strong against all fireball characters. They did put it in SFxT but considering that game doesn’t leave you hindered when knockdown down in some cases like this game does. I guess they felt it didn’t matter. Also remember… back then… all Guy had to contend with fireballs was HP hozanto, Bushin Flip… and against some characters. Run Slide at frame perfect timing.

Also af0 I don’t think we’d ever see that type of situation is what I’m saying outside of the opponent crossing you up and going for frametraps or something. I know some use it for defense measures but Ibuki gets a trade off from her DP as well, whether it be a mixup, reset into kunai or HKD from her grab, she at least gets something to benefit from hers while all we mostly get is a soft knockdown corner push or Ultra if we were get that and were in range. Honestly even if we were to get the FADC which I don’t see it happening, it all depends on how Guy hits the opponent for a good trade off of 3 bars… cause if it hits like Viper’s DP… then… it’s pointless.

Use your imagination cos the corner isn’t as small as you make it out to be. Just cos someone is attacking you from the corner, doesn’t mean they’re close enough to cross-up Guy, unless they have air tatsu which is a different story as it gives them more range.

I’m pretty sure you can do ex tatsu FADC from a fair distance away from the corner.

Also, if they give ex tatsu FADC the same property as when you use df. HK, (juggle, which I think it already has), you should be able to follow up with HK air tatsu for good damage after you FADC. They should probably give the 1st hit of ex tatsu more dmg too and compensate with the remaining hits.

It’s FAR from useless.

They still are likely not going to give it to us, also I said it would be useless compared to what other characters could do, Rufus alone does 300+ damage. Sakura… we won’t even go there, but if it has a hit like Rose’s Soul Spiral or Viper’s DP which causes more of a low horizontal float It wouldn’t matter if we got it because we wouldn’t get much off of it. Viper only gets Ultra because it starts up quickly and has a big hitbox.

Again you’re mistaking what I said, if someone has you in the corner, they aren’t going to deliberately push themselves into the corner, and at a high level. Most players aren’t going to put themselves in that position to give away free damage. Especially when it comes to note that 3 bars is needed for it, how often do you see people getting hit by EX messiah these days on the ground in tournament or by Sakura EX DP it’s not as commonly seen when in high level play all it mostly becomes is an option in or a scapegoat. For me personally I conserve meter so even if they were to give us an DP FADC. I likely wouldn’t use it outside of desperate measures and that even follows through when I play Yang or Ryu.

Not gonna happen, all the mk cross up in the game whiff on low profile, maybe if they change our cross up to hk. But we really need something here, dwu is bad for us and we werent good to begin with

The more I look at character change wish lists and discussions, the more I see people talking about DWU hurting. I didn’t realize at first, but almost every character I play is hurt by this, such a shame… With Guy especially, that pressure lays off some.

Not true, I’ve witnessed Sakura, Chun, Deejay, Cammy, Rose, Shotos with their j.lk, to name a few that can hit a low profile move with a crossup. Honestly you shouldn’t be able to throw out a normal to avoid something that isn’t a 4 frame safejump to get away scotch-free

Faster Ultra- Which would put too much fear in players of raw Hozanto or the new ninja sickle in the corner. (maybe ask for 1-2 frames of his forward dash would be better i guess for fadc u1)

Faster jump- To allow guy even more options to punish fireballs.

Faster or safer pokes- Guy be too annoying.

More damaging combos- no comment.

Better anti-airs- He has so many options if they keep more hits on ex tetsu and far St.hk buff I never jump in on guy if it wasn’t a safe jump or I knew the player lack good anti-air skills his damage is 1 of the highest for anti-airs .

^ We can’t get every thing for guy he be too good beating all of gief’s jumping options stopping all dive kicks beating every good jumping normal and T.hawk’s Condor Dive clean with just far St.HK or instant Kaiten Izuna Otoshi if your not Guile or Juri you have to out footsie Guy to win now its nearly broken.

Blood, what are you talking about dude? I’m talking about your opponent being in the corner, and you landing ultra on them - that’s it. Is it so hard to imagine Ryu landing a ranged sweep while you’re trying to walk them towards the corner, and then you wake up with ex tatsu fadc ultra? Yes, it’s not always gonna work but at the very least it adds to the mind game and respect for Guy’s wake up.

That’s just one use for it, not to mention empty jump tatsu, which blows up throw mashers on empty jumps. And also focus lev 1, forward dash ex tatsu, blows up those who think they can press buttons cos they’re +2. The options are many, and that’s what you seem to not want to admit, that ex tatsu gives Guy options.

so i was playing the ultra pc mod for quite a few hours last night. guy’s safejump setups like the one after run slide etc not being possible if they made his jump faster is basically moot. delayed wake up is a pain in the ass. i can’t imagine what it’s gonna be like for characters like ibuki/akuma. i’m not a fan of dwu. i think it slows the game down a lot.

i understand that the pc mod isn’t exactly the way the final game is gonna be. but dwu works the way it’s supposed to mechanically in the end. safejumps aren’t really going to be a thing anymore once ultra is out.

Hello, I am not a new player but I was very confused when I read many posts here. For example: what is a low profile move? Even when I searched on Shoryuken-wiki I got zero results on it.
So it was hard to follow what you were discussing about.
Is there a template somewhere for all nicknames you are giving?

First of , I would like to ask you all: What buffs should Guy recieve so we all can become a better player with him? I think Blooddrunk is the closest one here who have a clue on that.

Every character should have their own weaknesses and strengths, it is by knowing what weakness the character have you can become a better player. So I totally agree with him.

The biggest effect of delay wake up is that Guy players will have to up their corner game. IMO, whenever you have meter, your BnBs should now end with Ex Hozanto rather than run-slide.

If they made his jump faster, it would only be by a few frames. His fastest normal takes 12 frames to fully animate. So he would likely lose any consistent safe jump off run slide unless they tweak the recovery accordingly (unlikey).

He would probably gain numerous other safe jump setups where there were none before however. The new delayed wake up will force you to guess on these as well until people come up with new OS’s to cover all situations (ugh).

I gotta say, I’m still a little perplexed at Capcom’s attitude towards j.d+mp. In other games it hit overhead and did not lose to lows and there were far fewer “outs” than in SF4, yet no one every thought it was broken. Seems more like an arbitrary decision rather than a carefully considered balancing decision.

I just wouldn’t want to take that risk.

Delayed wakeup won’t be a killer, I could OS with Ninja Sickle and land the 2nd hit meaty. Which means anything at least 11 frames? Will be good for meaty pressure off an OS, and anything slower would be good for a delayed hit to catch any crouch teching on wakeup. The only threat out of Delayed Wake up is if the opponent decides to wake up with something, hasn’t been decided if it will get the treatment of not allowing reversal yet.

Also Elbow in previous could get hit out of… jabs were godlike anti air back in Alpha days.

Elbow gets stuffed by even more stuff in SF4. It’s amazing as an air-to-air, but nothing special as a jump in.

SEEgo >> low profile is a move that lower your hitbox allowing you to avoid being hit by a few jump in attack or airborne attack like sagat’s tiger knee. Many cr.mk like ryu or guy are low profile moves

I was talking about Mk cross up not all cross up, I haven’t tested sakura actually but all the characters I play (all shotos, bison, guy) do whiff on low profile.
Edit: cammy and chun doesnt have mk cross up (well chun can cross up with it but only some character like sagat). Just tested more character: sakura and fei j.mk whiff on low profile too (tested on ryu and chun) on the other half Rose and dee jay j.mk cant be low profiled with cr.mk by ryu and chun but chun cr.mp works, i tested other low profile like dhalsim slide and it beat them too
But yeah I guess if guy j.mk is buffed to Dee Jay level it’s good enough and we will be able to beat most low profile except that chinese bitch and slides ^^

so about guy’s cr. rh slide again. so his doesn’t go under fireballs(except gouken)… if you’re saying blood, that the ability to go under them combined with his startup, range, and knockdown… it might be too strong, what about elena? hers goes further… i’ve only ever seen in knock down. not like guy’s where it only knocks down in certain situations(CH… close range). hers goes under fireballs… and from what i was told from the capcom cup loke test… it’s safe from any range including point blank. if hers is kept the way it currently is… i don’t see any reason as to why guy’s shouldn’t go under fireballs.

Thing is does Elena’s go under fireball’s like Ryu’s throughout? Haven’t seen that match yet cause everyone’s been playing new characters whenever they get Ultra and I likely miss her against fireball characters. Plus their hurtboxes still aren’t fixed by Capcom Cup they only said they were 60% finish and still carried wonky hurtbox I’m sure and frame data. By the final we will know everything needed I guess.

If they want to change it sure, but you still have to be relatively close for it to knockdown, otherwise we have to be spaced so it isn’t -3 on hit. However Guy can go under Seth, Gouken, and HIgh tiger shot, this includes regular runslide.