The only way they’d do that is if they dropped frames on Guy’s jump so it isn’t floaty., the OH change would be nice… for both elbows it’d give us at least something along with an extended hitbox.
Umm I think some of you need to learn fundamentals. so what if certain things don’t work all the time, its called mixups. and you can use jump elbow to bait and punish shotos cr.mk
Why in the world would anyone bait a cr mk with an aerial approach , just walk in and out of its max range and punish with st mk, or st mp. From my experience baiting with elbow, most won’t go for cr mk because the distance you’ll be will more or less be outside of it, they can simply walk/dash up and Cr mk as you descend if they react quick enough, or AA you. You’ll only benefit from either making them whiff their SRK or trade with them… Which in most cases won’t be in your favour when it comes to the trade, its better to play a ground game against Shotos. that way their only tools are footsies and fireballs,
I think some of you need to use common sense… There is no mix up. Theres nothing to bait, or mix up. Because the opponent can not be hit. Not just that characters have one button mashing brainless attacks taht can beat your jump in. YOU CAN NOT BE HIT PERIOD. Theres nothing to bait, you are at no risk. As a matter of fact even if you “mistime” it. This isnt a bad thing per say as I showed in the video because you can then just combo him period… And there is no mix up of empty jumping because in many instances these same moves that your air attacks can not hit, can not hit be hit by guys hurricane kick etheir.
as for Flexov
Also ummm… bushin flip elbow has been a over head in other games. Games where characters didn’t have moves where they could just mash a low move to win. Its not some automatic if you stand you got thrown, or if you ducked you got hit by elbow… thats now how games work lol. Hell the throw use to throw ducking people to before and it was not some broken thing ethier. And…
“If backdash > empty Izuna, combo / throw”
OK dude I think your just trolling now… are you trying to be serious… You think a slow as empty izuna to combo is going to punish a guy back dashing to this? Does he back dash right as your landing or something? Wtf? seriously?
Oh well its pointless to post here I see…
2012 in mind. And I really like the elbow chip, instead overhead.
If Guy options are so horrid air - to - ground, don’t jump at all to get in. You are too much into frames and hitboxes I think, elbow, cross up, j.hk… Are viable options to jump in at someone (you may know by now that jumping in this game is terrible risky… for everyone), people aren’t robots who can stuff your jump ins every single time you jump. Even pros. Relax a bit 'kay?
How about just give him his Alpha Elbow, OH, bushin flip elbow did Chip and was also overhead, I don’t even care if it does 10 damage… OH would be fine, Guy has to be at a certain height for elbow to be active and hit for most characters, But for this to even be effective they have to give him a deeper hitbox, even if they don’t do the alpha elbow, the deeper hitbox would be needed… as well as more hitstun/blockstun, It’d give Guy more ability to rushdown, safely. That’s why his Alpha Rushdown metagame was good, you could mix it up with, Run/Stop/Overhead, Bushin Flip Elbow and Hozanto, strung in with frametraps and grabs alike.
Well maybe not every character will do that… but do a Guy vs Guy mirror, it will strictly be a ground game if either one of you knows that cr mk, completely destroys his jump in game because you won’t put in the risk to do j.hk especially when you’ll have to be at the right distance, at that point cr.mp and i believe st hk will become a factor as well as TK Izuna and Tatsu, it was the same way in Alpha 3, Guy vs Guy cr lp and cr mp beats every jump in for guy and that leads to a free Bushin Izuna,
I remember fighting This is K1, and a few other Guy players, majority of our matches were on the ground.
woahh…
I dont think we will get OH on either elbow, OH on command elbow would be nice but I honestly cannot see it happening.
A downward extended hitbox on bushin elbow (and maybe command elbow too) would be a perfect.
When I said I’d like a downward (and backward) extended hitbox for J.mk I was talking about its use as a crossup, not a jump in attack (we have plenty of attacks for that including two buffed ones in 2012). I guess I’m a little pissed that when fighting Ryu (for example) he can use c.mk as an answer to almost everything, crossup, command elbow, bushin flip, jumping mk… its as was said above, a bit braindead.
How about:
Bushin Elbow= Slightly extended downward hitbox and chip damage.
Command Elbow= Faster drop speed.
I’d like a bigger hitbox on command elbow so he actually has a good air to air move. He literally has nothing that will beat Blanka, Abel, or Chun air to air.
This might be a stupid question but* if* they did extend the hitbox downward on command elbow would that make comboing from it harder unless you used it later in the jump or would the hitstun be the same regardless untill you hit the ground?
Actually how does the frame advantage on command elbow work, is it the same + frames on hit regardless of how high/low/instant you activate it because I have no idea?
You don’t need to meet Abel in the air, unless you’re doing doing an air grab. Crouching MP all day he can’t jump on you.
For other characters, jumping MK might be good, and I sometimes use neutral jump Mk which is also surprisingly good in the right situations.
I doubt it’s the same, on hit or block. When I play against characters like Sagat and T.Hawk it’s really awkward when they block the elbow standing and it feels different.
Here’s what guy needs slightly larger hitbox on his crossup so he can cross up Sim/Rose slightly lower so no one can do low profile moves to avoid it, (Apply that to everyone’s cross ups), Extend the hitbox on elbow to be lower as well and give it a bit more blockstun to bushin flip elbow at least so if blocked high, he is even and if they block it crouching he is at best +2. Make his Overhead not miss against miss low profile characters, reduce the recovery on run stop so he is even on an immediate run/stop from TC, and make st mp > lp hozanto combo on hit depending on the distance, leave it as is for block or atleast a smaller frame trap . Make his Cr RH active throughout the entire move or atleast end the 2nd to last frame or make it safer on block.
I’m sure this would make everyone much happier.
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Since us, Guy players could do low profile moves to avoid crossups as well, I’ll go for a wider hitbox on mk to land crossups easily. Fixing the low profile > crossups looks like they have to retouch the entire cast, and I think that’s too much work for capcom to even bother (even it’s the way to go).
Blabla
Hitboxes again.
Ive noticed that in the Abel and Blanka matches cr.Mp is a saviour in itself. I’ve had some success beating close wheel kicks with cr.Mp and far wheel kicks with standing Mk. Never really use neutral jump Mk outside of safejumps but Ill have to start thowing it in there.
I’d love to see the frame data for the different hits if they exsist, because Im getting more and more confused as to what advantage the elbow actually gives.
The frame data says Guy should be at +3 advantage but you can land a standing Hp (5 frame) after it, and a cr.Mp which is 6 frames too, the cr.Mp link is super tight and feels like a one framer.
What am I missing cause it cant be +3 on hit, I land command elbow > Mp>Hp target all the time. o_O
The bushin flip elbow is amost definatly 3 frames or worse on hit because even linking a crouching lk is hard enough.
Edit: Ok I just landed standing HK of the command elbow… now Im seriously confused. I landed it once but for the life of me I cant repeat it >:(
Edit: just landed it twice more, elbow must be activated at almost the very last part of a deep jumpin… awesome.
sorry for going off topic, and especially if this has been talked about before.
I’m pretty sure on tall characters if you hit the very top of their hurtbox, it will be +3-4 on hit, Blocking easy way this is to mash SPD or Ultra and see if you jump out…
Extending the attack box of the command elbow would make it worse. It would hit the characters earlier, giving us less frame-advantage to do stuff when we land. It’s not much as is, so I’d really rather they didn’t mess with that data. More hit stun would always be nice though! It’s pretty useless against very tall characters - it hits while Guy is higher, meaning he needs more time to land.
The only useful data you could go on is how many frames of hit stun it causes to the opponent. The amount of frames Guy spends in the air after the hit to finally land on the ground is going to vary with every character, and for whatever pose they might have been in when getting hit, changing his actual frame advantage for a successful hit.
Anyways, looking forward to that Ultra 1 buff. Looks like we’ll be landing shoulder>FADC>Ultra1 a lot more, as well as comboing off the Bushin chain from greater distances. I wonder if they’ll make the Ultra 2 command easier as it was in Super? I’m pretty terrible at inputting that command in AE now… I was bad enough at it in Super!
I wonder how the buffs to j.MK and HK will effect things? Reckon we’ll finally be able to cross up Dhalsim and Rose? j.HK might even become a more viable cross up! I wish that move got more active frames though. But everything else is good. So long as he’s still fun to play…
That’s what I want. I hope Guy’s jumping Hk can cross-up easier in the corner as well as mid-screen, that’ll be a good way to lock your opponent down for more pressure.
Guy
[Wall Jump]: Can now attack earlier after the initial jump off the wall.
[Bushin Hasoken]: Hit box on the last part is enlarged, making it easier to connect the full Super Combo.
[Bushin Muso Renge]: Command has been simplified further, so it is easier to execute now.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2011/09/21/ssfiv_ae_ver.2012_beta_version_–_part_22
[Bushin Muso Renge]: Command has been simplified further, so it is easier to execute now.
wonder if its qc’s
That’s what I’m wondering too. I think it will help a lot. Now we will see Guy players use U2 like before and I hope they actually increased it’s range cause that’s what they said last time and it was barely noticeable. The super fix should have been taken care of first time around. I wish they would improve the target combo more. That jumping from wall buff seems pointless to me. I haven’t seen anyone talk about that lol. There is still one more set of balance changes so we might still get some buffs and fixes.