@Zansam would be your best contact for Racoon. He runs Nova, Frank, RR. You can also check the Level Up Strategies for more ideas (and add in more if you find them).
I’d test that first; MODOK’s command grab is +1 frame post flash unlike the others, and FFC is +4 post flash. Those gaps may make it so the setup isn’t as airtight as Thor, who is +0 post flash.
Good info to know. I will have to look into that.
Hey slippaz, I recently switched my teams to your magneto /dante / frank team and have been loving it. I just have two quick questions about it. For the dante pick up off of the magneto raw tag, how do you perform the kara valcano? And also, what is an optimal pick-up off of jam session? I feel like I can’t kill off of it which really hurts my incoming. Thanks for the tech man, I absolutely love this team!
Hey man, glad you’re liking the team! Rep that Frank for us 
A general point about fitting things in after a Magneto tag: You’re always going to have a bigger window to do something like kara dash xx Volcano or (Call Jam Session) Snapshot if you end your Magneto combo with s.HS sj.MH add.S --> Tag. I’m assuming you’re trying to corner press with Mags, so keep in mind that you can always s.H out of Hypergrav and do the tag sequence. Put in a slight delay between s.H and s.S to lower them a little bit and make sure Magneto gets the tag with the normal timing. This also works with sjuf, Add.S s.HS, but you have to delay the s.H to s.S more, so it’s trickier. Always start holding your Assist button as soon as you input the add.S for the tag obviously.
That being said, whether you s.H or not, you can always fit in either kara dash xx Volcano or Assist + Snapshot off of Hypergrav s.S --> Tag…but it requires you to have a really good feeling for when Dante’s/Frank’s tag animation ends. Frank recovers veryyy slightly faster (33 frames as opposed to 34 IIRC), but the timing should be essentially the same. Just takes some practice.
For Dante, you can use the method Rikir uses to convert Level 3 into Volcano, which is 6623M…builds a dash into the input for Volcano. If directional dashing isn’t your bag, I know you can Kara the Level 3 with s.H xx Volcano as well, but I’m not sure if that would be easier than button dashing (although it is for the Level 3 follow-up). At the end of the day, you’re just hitting dash and inputting Volcano as close together as possible. The Kara window isn’t as tight as something like Kara Mag Blast (where you have to deal with the buffer window). I don’t even use L+H xx Volcano to streamline things…I go for M+H xx Volcano. When I did it in the video, I canceled that unusually fast…you can actually time it so Dante dashes essentially all the way into the corner before Volcano comes out, but the important thing here is buffering the dash correctly in relation to the hard tag recovery.
But you actually don’t have to dash at all if you don’t need the extra meter from a full Beehive hit. Notice what Rampage did in his video:
If you just Vocano xx Beehive from tag distance, the first kick or so of Beehive actually hits and forces a weird/glitchy kind of soft knockdown situation. That means that you can always skip the Kara dash and go straight to Volcano xx Beehive xx Million Dollars if it’s easier for you. Essentially all you’re losing is a little meter.
As far as Jam Session goes…do you mean for Frank or Magneto? Guessing Frank cause you used the word “kill” (both are important and can kill though), so the main thing is to keep your ground bounce intact during the conversion. In the corner you want to convert into jump-height Tools L loops using something along the lines of j.H j.Tools L, j.H j.Tools L, j.H s.S into Superjump Series. You can actually continue by relaunching with EMD into j.Tools H at surprisingly high HSD, but the timing becomes pretty tight (call EMD after you’re actually already jumping forward).
Midscreen, I usually use j.H j.Tools L j.H into s.S and relaunch with Mags (not as tight as the corner one). I also sometimes do j.H j.Tools L j.H, s.MH Tools L, cr.MS, Superjump Series into ender…using Mags after that is tough but IIRC it works. See starting at 2:29 in this video:
I don’t actually use jump loops, but I have a feeling they’re not bad there…I might mess with that later and see what I can get. My Jam Session conversions are usually kind of bullshit-as-I-go-along midscreen, so maybe someone can offer something more optimal.
The most braindead (but still decent) conversion is to use something into j.S for the ground bounce and go into s.Tools L, cr.Ms.H, Tools L, cr.MS into superjump series.
Remember that you can always end with a Snap and get another Jam Session mixup. If you’re on the anchor, popping XFactor should kill. In that situation I generally do the “most braindead” one I just described, but replace cr.M with XFactor Cancel (so Tools L loops, XFactor the last Tools L s.S) and then go from there.
Also remember if you save your ground bounce that your meter gain is going to be solid and you may well be able to THC with Dante. IIRC that THC adds about 300k to whatever you’ve done, and you can follow it with s.S sj.S, (falling) sj.Tools H, L Zombie, Tools M, Hyper to build more meter and probably kill.
FFC resets are also always good vs. characters with no air mobility, and you can FFC reset off of Disruptor if you’ve confirmed with a ground bounce:
As a side note, because it took me a while to systematize this, a solid Magneto conversion off of Jam Session is juf.H, addf.H, s.LMS, sj.H (fly), Fly Loops. You have to kara the addf.H for the right spacing, and if you don’t hit s.L fast enough for the height to allow an sj.H straight into Fly Loops, you can also launch into sj.H adf.H xx L Blast, juf.MH xx L Blast and make something up. You’ll probably be around 2 bars there and can just tag. Midscreen, you can also convert off of Jam Session with juf.HS xx L Blast, cr.HS sj.H adf.H xx L Blast, juf.MH xx L Blast and go into s.H for 1 Hypergrav Loop and tag.
Lemme know if you have any other questions or if something wasn’t clear, man. Frank players gotta help each other out!
Wow thanks that helps a bunch! Also, I wanted to get your opinion on tools l conversions off of Jam session. I was messing around with the confirms and unless there is a way to use disruptor to extend off of the jumping conversion (jh xx l tools, jh, s), i think doing the tools l loop (s. MH xx tools l, crmsth xx tools l, crm s) does more damage. With the jumping conversion, I only got 659,000 for one bar used with level 5 frank, but with the tools l loop conversion, I got 822,400 damage with one bar used
More than happy to help man
Sounds fair to me. That’s actually one area that I haven’t tested as thoroughly as I should, and midscreen I most often just do the Tools L loops unless I want to set up an FFC reset. 822k is definitely decent for a Jam Session conversion midscreen…and I’ll test EMD, because I’m pretty sure you could do someeething, but it would require veryyy tight timing. Basically you’d have to jump, slight delay, and EMD into j.Tools H almost instantaneously. Almost certainly not worth it, but I’ll try to check,
Incidentally, for “bad” Frank conversions like that (because 822k at +1 meters is “bad” :P), you always have the option to THC with Dante at the end if you don’t want to DHC into Million Dollars. That THC with s.S sj.S into Tools H afterwards (though no ground bounce so you have to stop there) should do more than 370k damage…that’s the number it adds when you’re starting from level 1 and have to Snapshot. If you’re level 5 and do like s.H after the THC or something, you’ll probably be adding quiteee a lot. Tools L loops after Jam Session should almost always leave you with enough meter for the THC.
Its funny that doing a THC at the end of the combo can lead to more damage (and a new Frank mixup or incoming mixup) than just DHCing to Dante. Only issue there is you do not have the ability so snapshot before.
@Count_0laf Wait so I’m trying the same thing and I’m getting very different damages from you haha. Were you talking about off of a raw Jam Session, or were you hitting with Frank in some way before Jam Session connected? I’m getting like 663k after one bar if I do Jam Session hit into j.MS, Tools L loops (same as you posted), sj.MMHS, land, Roundhouse H, Hyper…
Butttt, I was totally wrong about the conversions. With Disruptor assist, the optimal conversion is definitely to use j.S late in your jump so that you can hit a s.L and prevent them from ground bouncing. If you do that, you can actually use Disruptor for an extension. This works:
(Jam Session Hits), j.MHS s.LMHS sj.MMHS, (dash), jump up forward, (Call Magneto), j.Tools H, s.S, sj.MMHS, j.Tools H, into Zombie/Tools Mx2
That gives 834k off of a stray Jam Session hit. The timing becomes very tight during the last superjump series, so you have the option of shortening that to sj.MHS (makes hitting the L Zombie slightly harder), or shortening the initial conversion to j.MHS s.LMS (take out the s.H). I prefer the latter and it still breaks 800k. As far as I can tell, this is the best confirm you can get midscreen if you have EMD assist. It’s actually better in the corner than the j.H Tools L j.H Tools L j.H relaunch version (704k). It is a little tight on the EMD though.
Also works off of Snapshot + Jam Session
Yeah man, just looked at it and doing THC into s.M s.S sj.S Tools H adds juuuust about exactly 400k damage haha. Pretty solid for keeping Frank in as well.
Forgive the horrible camera, but I wanted to post the conversion. This saves the ground bounce, and by doing a little overhead with Frank, the damage made it to 928,500 for one bar. Let me know what you guys think about practicality, because I don’t think this will work on opponents not on the ground.
I think Instant Overhead j.L + Jam Session is really strong in that situation for sure, and it looks like that conversion does more than using j.L and 2x j.Tools L’s to bring them down and relaunch to preserve the ground bounce. I think it’s harder to space correctly midscreen because Jam Session propels them away from you, but you could probably dash M and nail it consistently if you were ready for the spacing.
Yeah I do doubt that it would work on Jumping opponents, but you could always try dash Tools L if they’re at normal jump height and skip the s.MH. There I’d probably convert with j.MHS (delayed), s.LMS into superjump, EMD relaunch, superjump. Tools L loops are a better starter always (air or ground), but since we can’t extend with EMD at that HSD, it’s probably best to keep it simple. Unfortunately you can’t do grounded Tools L loops after that j.MHS s.L conversion…You can do like 1 Tools L cr.MS IIRC, but you can’t relaunch with Disruptor anymore.
Also, it looks like Chris is pretty high when you confirm with s.MH there. Your sequence worked for his hitbox, but remember that if you combo into the first Tools L and they’re above shoulder height, going into s.MH Tools L cr.M can be better than cr.MH Tools L cr.M. It helps to bring them down for the second Tools L so that your final cr.M will hit.
I wish there was a consistent way not to use the wall bounce with the Dante THC. Anyone have any ideas?
Just wanted to come back in and say thank you all so much for the info. My cousin is playing Deadpool/Dante/Frank and is getting a hold of how the raw tag combos work. He seems really happy with the team. He already had a Deadpool and basic knowledge of Frank. So he’s gonna spend a lot of time learning Dante.
I’m working on compiling a video of what I have found. Depending on how busy I am it could be ready in the next two weeks.
Figured this out. Essentially you want to knock them down and then get as far forward as you can. The “bounce” hitbox is on the front of the cart. It can’t hit if its behind them in the wall.
Nice find dude. Messed with it and I can actually dash forward and THC after a tag from Magneto, but it becomes veryyy tight because dashing doesn’t necessarily mean you’re close enough to save the wall bounce. You reallyyy gotta know that spacing, but the follow-up is significantly better.
On the other hand, if you have level 1 Frank/Dante for whatever reason, doing [starter] into the 2x Tools L’s into hard knockdown gives you a lot of time to dash and gets level 4 by the first picture. Pretty solid.
I just happened to run into it last night so I made sure thats what was right. If you finish with sjHS or anything more than that (MMHS) then you should have time to even just take a step forward.
So you basically need to get to throw range and wait for the opponent to stop “bouncing” off the ground after a knockdown, is that it?
Not really.
Essentially if you look at the animation for shopping cart you will see a white “flash” hitbox on the front of the cart. This is what makes the wall bounce happen. So what you want to do is walk forward on the downed opponent and get Frank as far forward on their feet as possible. That way, this hitbox never hits. I haven’t checked, but that may also avoid the last hit (making it 16 mashed instead of 18).
Damn, that’s pretty cool. I only wish Spencer’s Up Grapple gave Frank time to walk forward after the tag. ;_; Is it possible to walk forward after a raw tag from Magneto or someone? @Slippaz ?