Is a hard knockdown enough time to tag? Air opponents who are “stunned” are hard-knockdown-ed, with the only difference being that they are easy to “OTG.”
Also, thoery-combo looking to test if it is: Some lead into Break the Witness :h: (20 hits) into catching the wallbounce into two Turnabout Loops into stun into hard tag into :s: into sj.:s: into snapshot. Or maybe a hit-confirm into an Objection into a :s: into a :h: into groundbounce into Break the Witness :h: into Objection into stun into raw tag…
On the trial mode side, after watching Lythero’s tutorial/combo video, I saw a decent combo that was 17 hits pre-stun.
Was testing raw tags extensively just now, and here is my conclusion: It’s too hard and too situational. There are only three times you will reliably be able to convert off a raw tag from a Break the Witness :h: (20 hits), and they are all in or near the corner:
Raw
Right after the Bridge to the Turnabout
After a stun without too many hits and the opponent is not too far from the ground
“1” is too risky; “2” is okay, but you get one shot; and “3” is limited by the second part. Even after only 10 hits (two Turnabout loops), the combo scaled too heavily. Even if you get the raw tag (which is much harder, as the timing gets VERY strict out of those three scenarios) AND the s.:s: into sj.:s:, you will NOT be able to convert because the opponent will wake up the INSTANT you hit the ground, denying you a picture. Even trying to convert from j.:h: into BtW :h: was such a pain because the timing was so strict. It helps to walk backward for a FRACTION of a second before the tag, otherwise Frank will come out from the corner, making it impossible to hit the follow up. Walk backward for too long, though, and Frank won’t hit with the tag.
That said, in those three scenarios, you WILL get Frank to Level 4. If we take a raw BtW (least hits):
I just found something new in Trial mode. Phoenix has that whole :h::h: j:m:j:h:j:s: thing going. With that I was able to do this:
Start in Investigation mode:
In Trial mode cancelling :h::h: into Maya super and DHCing to Frank always gives you the right height. So if you can find ways to combo into it then you can get this to work.
Doesn’t sound like a bad team, lockdown for shuma, arrows for everyone.
By the way, paulow3b, you’re the badass Jill I’ve seen on youtube, yes? If so, I’m a fan, I love the character, and regret not playing her, she’s fun to watch.
I do not have Shuma downloaded so I would love it if you could look at the Frank West level up strategies thread and give us some input on him (and maybe Jill too?)
Oh, sweet, I was correct. And whether or not you term yourself a badass, anyone with the execution to pull off mad beast combos like the ones from the combovid on your channel gets my respect.
As far as Frank is concerned, I’ve really only been labbing Taskmaster lately, who has very few Frank setups, BUT, I have a few new reasons to use Haggar/Dorm/Frank, all of it dormammu stuff.
For one thing, cr.L st.H Dark Matter, one of the most common corner combo setups, can rawtag to Frank and allows him to continue the combo. I can’t believe I never thought of it before today. For this team, I made a crazy-basic combo about 5 seconds ago that gets Frank to level 4. Dormy j.S cr.L st.H Dark Matter, Hold Tag, cr.LMHS MMHS call haggar and picture, cr.H S sj.H knee drop, call dark hole and two pictures. People will be able to expand on this most likely, but I was keeping it as simple as I could to get lvl4, also my execution is not the best.
In addition, I’m working on tech to juggle during spell charges with Dormammu and Lariat Assist, but even though I can start a corner combo and get meteors off it, I cannot get Frank to a meterless lvl4 without the opponent having a large hitbox, or being Modok. So, yeah, damn. But I’m going to see if I can do anything off this, it’ll just take a lot of labtime.
so after a long break at this game im kinda getting back into it again, and after seeing some awesome frank play over the last couple of days ive decided to sub him in instead of Hsien-ko onto my team of spiderman/frank/dante. ive been in the lab for about an hour and i am already super impressed with the synergy that they have together.
starting with spidey, you can quite easily turn any random hit you get with him into a level 3 frank without using any meter. i reckon i can get level 4 i just need to squeeze i think 1 extra hit somewhere in the combo.
any combo using spidermans spidersting-spiderbite, you can hard tag right into frank, call jam session assist-OTG with camera shot, and then get a second one in as they get knocked away for 0 meter cost.
if you have 2 meters you can go spidersting-bite, hard tag to frank, and THC right away which will bring out dante instead of spidey, putting the opp in the corner and getting you to level 4, which im sure you can combo after as well but i havent worked out that part yet.
after hitting with combo with spidey you can DHC into frank on the last hit of maximum spidey with survival techniques, making it whiff, call jam session assist, camera OTG, second camera shot which i think is level 4 as well.
another neat trick i found too is you can do a L zombie toss (the charge back-forwards one) call web ball assist, M zombie toss, and then wavedash behind them all, they hit at just the right time so they all combo and you can follow up with a full combo of your own. i should test the durability of this though as i know web ball doesnt really have that much durability at all.
Zombies have next to no durability, but all of those together have a strength in numbers that’ll neutralize quite a few projectile games. Just like a regular zombie outbreak.
And I like the Spidey combo. Have you tried calling Frank assist during the spidey combo just to add hits early, then go for the spiderbite? That should get enough hits for a level 4.
ah no i havent i should try that out and see if it works. im kinda getting to the end of hitstun decay with some of those combos though so there may not be enough left over. im sure i can figure something out though with that so thanks for the idea!
and yea i was reading the guide book a little for more frank info and it says that each zombie will stop a single projectile each, just that beams can blow through them pretty easily, although with frank having a small crouching hitbox you could potentially avoid those too. still lots of testing to be done.
Don’t forget that a webthrow into the corner is also a hard tag setup for Frank.
Mid screen if you use Crawler Assault you can DHC to the shopping cart if they are the right height (right about Frank’s shoulders) in order to follow up afterwards.
With your THC with Dante and from Jam Session you can picture and then knee drop at the end in order to make sure you will not miss the next picture or allow you to follow up with ToSH. Ending a combo (even at maximum hitstun) with picture and Jam Session to picture and knee drop to picture it adds a good number of hits to the end of the combo.
My team Spencer/Dante/Frank I’m really beginning to like, it might actually finally become my main team however…Bee and many others seems to prefer Frank + Jam session but I just don’t really want Dante anchor. Would Frank anchor work ?
Well the Nemesis thing I just posted might work with Spencer up grapple hard tag as well. If you THC early it will give you the Dante THC which is essentially a free level 5 off a hard tag.
Bryan, for the team Frank gets zoned out HARD and it makes him a difficult anchor. The way the team is set up is great as it allows you to have hard tag setups with Spencer on lead and backup THC or DHC with Dante as a second method for getting Frank leveled. The ideal thing about it is you run Spencer to build meter and do up grapples for both damage and leveling Frank as you should be able to hard tag, picture with Jam Session, knee drop, picture and super then even DHC to Dante and hard tag back in if you need to. This team you have should get you an easy level 5 Frank on any turn. Then Frank with assists just steam rolls people like nothing else.
