Regarding Mag/Frank, TACs should always be a viable option (trading the risk of them guessing right for the reward of meter conservation + killing the point character while leveling up), but should never be your -only- option. There are some situations where if you’re building a team around Frank, you want him leveled ASAP, period. There are some teams out there that Frank can easily crush single-handedly and you don’t want a 33% chance of that not happening.
follow ups off Blue Light Special depends on the height the shopping cart connects at, not whether or not the previous hyper was airborne or not. Also, you’d need to do it early or mid combo to have enough decay for the air series. Lots of different ways to put them in a state like that (Thecape was working on some setups via Chris for example), though my two favorites are Nova Speed Tackle or Spencer Bionic Arm in terms of hypers. Can even do it with assists in certain situations (I had a midscreen setup with Frank + Spitfire assist that let you blue light mid combo).
I really can’t get this to work. All i’m trying to do is find a way to level frank efficiently wtih modok/frank/doom that doesn’t require a TAC. I was trying to do standard frank combo into relaunch, call missiles, then snapshot into blue light special, relaunch. I’ve seen a video of someoen getting two snapshots before the blue light special but i can’t emulate this.
obvious option is THC with modok as second but even that doesn’t guarantee level 4 unless i have some cubes stored.
anywya, if you someone could maybe help devise something with this team i’d be very appreciative. Missiles is a must, not willing to try another doom assist although I’m open to any modok assist.
Holy shit, I had this idea today and came on here to ask about it… and there it is, NOICE! Sottle to the rescue again! (you gave me some great advice on Nova Akuma in the Nova threads a few months ago) I was wondering if Fr4nk We5t (as in lvl 4+) got anything spiffy off having a Rapid Slash assist, and just asked the same in the Nova threads. I know the idea is for the points to abuse the cart, but it’s nice when the cheese melts both ways. What do you mean exactly by “+Rapid Slash gives Nova the CR extensions after ground pound.?” Just not sure what CR is, but probably something that I’ll be embarrassed for not having known
Oh, also you mention in your post DHC to DT then tag. My initial idea was to end the Nova portion of whatever combo w/ the DP+L OTG move xx Power of the Nova Force super, end it early for the hard knockdown, DHC swords, 2 Helm Breakers, Lunar Phase, then hard tag and take pic (which I at least confirmed works). Any reason why one of those would have a distinct adv over the other? Would it just be a question of extra damage vs beefing up the Rapid Slash assist? Or is there more give-n-take goin on there?
Damn, anything you wanna say about the team, especially if you’ve been playing it, I’d love to hear. Ive been maining Mag Dorm Doom for a long time now, and still love it best, but it just simply doesn’t work online. This one very much could (keeping the Nova combos simple at least).
To add to the above, Ive been messing around w/ this team tonight and finding an interesting problem (using the word loosely)… after levelup, Im left w/ the order Frank Nova Vergil. Do we want that order? Fr4nk We5t is pretty sweet w/ any assists really (tho again would love to hear some specific RS tactics), but wouldn’t we still rather abuse the others, at the very least Vergil, with a shopping cart? The team functions well in any order post-levelup, and having the DT rapid slash is nice (I went with Sottle’s level approach if for no other reason than ease and consistency). It’s just weird, I find myself wanting my original order back, but don’t want to start raw tagging all over the place lol And if I keep it as-is, is Rapid Slash Nova all that great? Hopefully the Nova heads in that forum respond with some light shedding on that point.
“CR Extensions” - f+H OTG, call Vergil, Centurion Rush M, Centurion Rush H xx whatever.
I mention both options for the level up in the original post, it’s all about matchups and resources. To go with the swords option you need to save your ground bounce, which means you can’t get the two bars needed off the first action of the match. In the majority of situations though the swords option is better if you have the meter, but DT’d Rapid Slash is a big deal against some characters you plan to zone with Nova, hiding behind a Pulse, chucking Javelins and calling DT’d slash will keep pretty much any low mobility character at full screen.
As for team order, if you’re playing a team where you plan to level up Frank as a priority, you want him on point (Edit for clarity: On point AFTER levelling). Shopping Cart assist gets no improvements from levels, if you want to play Nova/Vergil + Cart, that’s a viable option too, but you might as well just go for DHC swords into kill off the first hit instead of the level up. Frank is also the worst anchor on this team, even at Level 5, so having him out to die makes sense. However, i still think optimal order once Frank is levelled is Nova/Frank/Vergil. Thankfully this isn’t too hard to achieve, when you get Frank levelled, you’ll either have just killed a character (Raw tag Nova) or have a character close to chip territory (finish with Frank, raw tag Nova). Nova still has time to apply a decent mixup after a raw tag. The best thing about this team is that it truly works in any order though, and you should learn it as such.
Nova/Vergil is not on the level of Nova/Arrows or Nova/Drones, but it’s still solid, you just need to get your Rapid Slash confirms down, Dash cr.M, Dash st.M, or in some cases Centurions or Human Rockets. As mentioned either, it’s also a viable bootleg zoning team. As mentioned above though, perfect scenario for me is to use Nova to get Lv.4+ Frank and then play Nova to extinction as free damage with cart assist, mop up the remains with Frank and anchor Vergil.
Sottle’s analysis of Nova/Frank/Vergil is pretty good, but I’d definitely discourage Frank/Nova/Vergil order. Goal of Frank is always to have him come into a fight at full health/leveled so he can run a train through your team. Level 1 point Frank, even with good coverage, just doesn’t compare to a higher leveled Frank. Furthermore, most assists that point Frank teams have are to aid his snapshots, not his neutral game. Nova/Frank/Vergil is the best choice (followed by Nova/Vergil/Frank, though you have to reduce your combos as nova with that team to preserve your ground bounce or at least change your combos) since that gives you the best situations to level up Frank. First goal should be to level up Frank, second goal is to have him run a train through the enemy team, then finally have Nova/Vergil do cleanup/comeback (both who are very capable of doing so). Not to mention Frank/Vergil can do level ups in either order with plenty of options (pretty much every Vergil hyper has level up options) so it’s a very good mix and match.
We were both talking about team order after levelling up Frank, he still wanted access to the shopping cart, i was saying that if you play a team where you level Frank, hiding him away as an assist is counter intuitive.
Also Nova/Vergil/Frank is 100% the best order, you don’t need to save your ground bounce or modify combos to level up Frank, you can DHC to Devil Trigger and raw tag. This setup also gives you the option to kill off the first hit, which Nova/Frank does not and leaves your team in the correct order if Nova dies without successfully levelling Frank.
Eh, I see pros/cons to Frank 2nd and Frank 3rd; I think it’s a bit too early to tell which one is the more effective. While a level 4-5 Frank is fairly well rounded, assists to help his game plan in several respects, and Frank in 3rd is less likely to have all of those tools at his disposal. Furthermore, Frank 3rd also means that if you lose your first two, you’re gonna get stuck with a level 1 Frank anchor, which is junky. Frank 2nd on the other hand puts a lot more pressure on your first character to get first touch, and Frank can struggle pretty hard as a Frank/Anchor shell. Regardless, i think either setup is x10 times better than point Frank, and both work.
Covers the bases nicely; two assists to help Vergil get first touch, gives frank a coverage assist and an extender on point, and Task can be used as a backup plan with THC to level Frank. Task is a decent anchor too.
I don’t get what you’re saying, Frank only starts 3rd, as soon as he’s levelled he comes into the 1st slot, so he has the same assist coverage he would have had starting in the second slot. The point is that Frank 3rd on this team functions exactly the same as Frank 2nd on every other Insta-Lv.5 Frank team, with none of the drawbacks.
The only downside to starting frank 3rd on this specific team is that if you lose your first two characters without ever touching the opponent, then you’re screwed. That’s still the case with 90% of other anchors, just more apparent with Frank. As soon as you get 1 touch with this team you should be readjusting the order into one of the optimal settings.
There’s actually a few more disadvantages than that for putting Frank 3rd. It does/potentially does make TACing into Frank no longer an option depending on the length of the point character’s initial combo (which with infinites and the like may actually be a bigger deal). If your second character dies and not your first (think happy birthday and such) you may not have a reliable way to level Frank with your remaining team. Furthermore, most Frank 3rd setups involve Frank hard tagging, so unlike in TACs/DHCs, it’ll entail him losing his red health.
A team like Nova/Vergil/Frank is perfect for Frank third because that team can be in pretty much any order/situation and as long as you have 2 bars (and in some situations less) you have a Frank leveling method. It’s very fluid, and is one of the best examples (though I’d say the best is Dante/Vergil/Frank). A lot of teams are far more rigid though, and most characters can’t universally level Frank the way Vergil does (some can only do THCs, some can only DHC in, some can only DHC out, etc). IMO, not think every team can put Frank in the back and reliably level him; they’d be better suited for having him second.
That’s what i’ve been saying the whole time, why are we even having this discussion? I never said Frank is always better in the 3rd slot, that would be stupid. This whole time it’s been pretty obvious i’m talking solely about this one team and you keep talking in generalities.
You can pretty much use any Vergil hyper in conjunction with Frank to level him. Frank on point does combo >> snapshot xx Survival Techniques >> Devil Trigger, Raw Tag, Snapshot. Frank combo >> snapshot xx Survival Techniques >> Spiral swords DHC >> combo ends in ground bounce >> raw tag, snapshot. Vergil combo >> raw tag Frank, Snapshot xx survival techniques (and Devil Trigger if you want another snap). Frank on point >> THC >> Snapshot. Vergil on point >> Judgement Cut hyper >> survival techniques (whiff) >> snapshot. Heck, even Vergil’s level 3 would let you get a snapshot after it.
Just to clarify, you really can use any of Vergil’s hypers to level up Frank. Check it out:
[media=youtube]IIuEUaipvn4[/media]
Anyway, I’ve been running Dormammu (Liberation)/Ammy/Frank lately and I really like the team. It has a lot of gimmicks for leveling up Frank and is pretty fun. Some of the leveling up tricks:
*Specific corner combo with Dormammu on point allows him to get the 2D1C spell (inferno), which can be used to OTG, hard tag into Frank and level up to 3. Works with 1D2C spell (big meteor shower) as well.
*The inferno spell as an assist allows Frank to get 3 pictures in one combo, thus instant level 4 with little effort. I’ve also found that throwing this spell out as an assist in a close-up situation bails Frank out really well, and even if he trades with the opponent’s point character he can still recover in time to take a picture.
*Survival Techniques -> Veil of Mist -> hard tag, photo (rinse and repeat as necessary)
*(Chaotic Flame/Stalking Flare ->) Okami Shuffle -> Survival Techniques right as the thunder portion starts, whiff -> photo
*THC with Frank on point, Bottoms Up, photo, guaranteed level 5
*You can take two photos at the end of a combo with Cold Star
*You can even finish a combo with Dark Dimension, hard tag into Frank and take a picture. Hell, you can do Dark Dimension, hard tag, THC and then take a picture. Not meter efficient.
Not sure about Nova, but for Frank Cold Star has some pretty good application. For one, it can help him take an extra photo at the end of a combo most of the time. It can be used pretty well with barrel roll mixups because the delay on the assist throws some people off, plus it’s super easy to confirm off of. It’s also good for extending combos at higher levels (as soon as he gets his OTG kick). Most importantly, on a lot of the cast, Cold Star allows Frank to do a ton of chip damage on an incoming character in level 4/5. Like 200k guaranteed. I think it’s a pretty solid assist for Frank.
Are there any characters other than Vergil that have specials that give enough time to hard tag Frank in? I’m thinking about running Ryu, Vergil, Frank and doing a combo with Ryu, dhc into Vergil, do the circle move that slams, tag into frank and level up. Could any other characters fit that slot? I don’t want to have to spend a 3rd meter to get Frank leveled up.
I’m taking parrt in this marvel team tourney where your characters cannot be used by your teammates. I’ve settled on modok/frank/Vergil because I’m used to frank in the second spot and I needed to replace doom because a teammate used him so I’m opting for Vergil.
Is there a way to use rapid slash assist to help extend frank west combos? I’m thinking like call assist snapshot super jump s or something. I see all the stuff u put about Vergil and frank synergy so I appreciate that but sword loops tend to be pretty finicky . Is there a specific one u use?
