Gouken SF4 Ultra Updates

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
821

I didn’t know that was you talking to combofiend with me Reipin, i would have said whats up :(.

Anyway i think gouken is a very strong character in ultra. Ill give you the breakdown on my thoughts on each change.

Cr.jab is good, like, much better than i thought it would be. a 3 frame chainable jab added with the fact that his cr jab has decent range is a GREAT tool for gouken to use to discourage people from mauling you. Its very quick, and you will all see when the game drops how good this change actually turned out to be. jab jab jab palm works now (its a pretty tight link though)

Ex Tatsu was obviously a great change. You have to spend meter for your only reversal, and its like…-97 on block. But changing the hitbox helps him ALOT. Having a reversal no matter how bad on block is a great tool, and people will now have to respect the option, regardless of how unsafe it is, and 3 meters can make it safe. Ex tatsu being 5 frames helps alot well, it feels and just looks alot faster. Anti airs will be easier, and reacting to moves like jaguar kicks will also feel a bit easier.

St.lk being cancellable was a change i thought was way overblown. Its good, but it doesnt really change much. One really good use for this buff is now you can st.lk buffer ex tatsu in footsies. If they press a button ex tatsu comes out, and since his ex tatsu is better now, it actually combos from like max distance. This was the only practical use i could find for this change though, i thought the range on lp palm would be better so st.lk xx palm would be good enough to reach at max distance, but i hardly noticed the extended range on lp palm, if there even is one, so st.lk xx ex tatsu is the only practical use i could find for this change.

Cr.mp buff is really good, but not for the reason i originally visioned. I originally thought that at most distances cr.mp xx hado would combo from most distances, making gouken a more deadly character in the neutral game giving him a solid poke into hado, but sadly, goukens startup and travel time for the hadouken makes cr.mp into hado still unable to combo in most ranges, even on counter hit its pretty difficult. The reason this is actually a GREAT buff however is that since delayed wakeup is a factor, gouken now has a high low game that he can rely on to open his opponent up without the use of setups/set play.

Overall delayed wakeup benefits goukens game as he didnt have great wakeup options before. While delayed wakeup hurts his safejump/setup options, it helps him defensively. Gouken overall will still have some offensive capabilities, but will be a much stronger defensive character. I didnt get to test much with red focus, but gouken all ready does so much damage, that im not sure if you can even get more using it, plus you might wanna save your meter for ex tatsu fadc at some point.

822

Thx, for sharing your hands-on impressions.

So far.LK x EX Tatsu connects more or less on max range also when just hitting limbs? If yes, sounds damn good…

Did you play around with cr.LK x LP Senku (instead of far.LK)? Has it become better, i.e. less whiffs, with the increased range?

823

Yea i tried, thing is, st.lk has less pushback than cr.lk, so if i wasnt getting it to work with st.lk, its probably not gonna work with cr.lk. that being said the range kinda felt the same to me, but ill do more testing when the game drops for sure.

824

I’m really disappointed they didn’t make c.MP Hadoken work a little better. Why even add it? :frowning:

I guess we can punish with c.MP into Hadoken at close ranges and maybe get bigger damage… but still not that great.

I tried for about a half hour to make Red Focus work today in KBT’s mod, and couldn’t get anything that was better damage than just using a single meter for EX Palm, even in the corner. I can’t even get a combo that stuns Akuma with red focus. One potential use for it is going into Red-Focus mid combo to try to use the air state to get a cross-up divekick reset (sort of like the resets you might do in the corner for stun->fully charged Denjin).

For example, you can j.HP s.MP c.HP Red Focus, jump OVER them, c.MP or c.LK->meaty Medium Dive kick cross-up (or not, as a mix-up) ->Combo and it will probably stun… it looks tricky and is hard to read, but that’s a lot of meter for something that isn’t guaranteed. I’ll probably be saving my meter for EX Tatsu FADCs on wake-up rather than using RF offensively.

825

Maybe in the corner red cancelling a fireball into crumple and U2 with HK Tatsu follow up, but I believe going into fireball x (regular) fadc - cr.hp x EX Palm will be the same.

Seemingly Gouken will not benefit from RFA cancelling and EX Tatsu x fadc will be more important. We will see…

826

RFA crumples on level 1, so the biggest benefit for us aside absorbing Multi Hit attacks is we can combo into U1 for some good damage.

827

But if you can do RFA1 crumple from a fireball, you should also be able to do regular FADC - cr.HP x EXSENKU for almost the same damage, cause RFA1 and Ultra get scaled as two hits each. And red cancelling a cr.HP seemingly makes no sense either as then you could have gone into EX Palm anyway. I do not see any meaningfull options… yet.

828

The way I look at RFA is more a punish than fancy stuff. Eg, if I’m playing my fellow Gouken and someone does a palm I can punish it at mp to hado RFA ultra. Because mp into palm won’t work, and mp into tatsu can wiff

829

Cl. st. hk has a 4 frame start up. So we can punish -4 attacks with cl. st hk > RFA > U1… for 400+ damage.

I’m looking at applying it that way, especially after those characters with DP’s that want to FADC their DP. Other normals can be canceled the same way… cl. st. mp, cr. hp, and I want to say cr. mp will work too.

Not to mention you’ll get the HKD from the Ultra as well if it doesn’t kill them.

830

Cr.MP doesn’t work :frowning: Not enough stun.

831

yeah that sucks, but maybe with the increased hit stun it will work on counter hit.

More options!! yay!

832

Shiine, no worries, it was cool chatting anyway. I didn’t know who anyone was until Combo told me anyway!

c.lk xx lp palm hits from about Gouken’s ankle, so it’s definitely not bad at all in terms of punishing a focus attack in your face.

I can’t think of a good reason to use RFA cancel at this point, at least not without seeing the numbers. You will get a wall bounce denjin which is nice, but in a punish situation launching into EX palm and FADCing is the same cost and probably nets you more damage.

Only thing I can think of is say a cr.mp xx fireball when you are defensive. Instead of FADC into pain train you can RFADC into Ultra 1…

RFADC would be REAL nice if say, palm (or even counter!) didn’t blow people away. HP palm through a fireball, RFADC, Ultra 1… But since Palm sends people airborne, as do all of our moves, I can’t see a huge use for it.

833

Yes, this is the primary issue. Gouken only has two specials that leave the opponent grounded. Fireball (which has too much pushback) and the first hit of EX Palm, which costs meter and only adds 100 stun. We don’t have a shoulder barge or anything like that.

834

Sigh…

cl. st. mp and far st mp > hado will cancel into focus attack and it catches crouch-techers.

What’s not to like about having a way to knock somebody to their knees and absorb multi-hitting attacks?

Ah well… Going off the grid… Good Luck folks! :slight_smile:

835

I hope that all Tatsus are fixed and not just 1/4. Although it’s almost certain that it will be the case, going by the track record of half-assed/one bad leg Gouken #capcomonnow

836

Far st fp hit box needs to be extended downward. Chun and blanka can duck this move…

837

Ok, I’ve been lurking through the threads here and at EH.

Aside one or 2 characters (Evil Ryu and Chun Li I’m pointing at you)… all I’ve seen is everybody not liking the nerfs that was made to their character. I think in that department, we got off pretty clean.

Most threads are saying RIP to the character and we haven’t even played the game or gotten used to any of the system changes.

838

Most people are saying RIP to their character because everyone wants easy street with nothing but buffs and ridiculous things. Even here I hear some guys talk and it’s ridiculous the amount of complaining I read. Gouken is a very good character. His only REAL issue was his terrible wake which is resolved as of June 3rd. He has flaws but every character has flaws.

He has crazy damage output for his lack of hit confirms. Now he has a hit confirm, 3 frame jab which can not only lead into jabx3 combo but we can fadc into ultra for almost half life. Did they nerf his damage output to off set that? No. And people are STILL complaining.

You can’t be a lower level Gouken complaining about how bad of character he is when you have people playing him at a higher level than you doing the same things you cannot. It doesn’t mean the character is bad, it means you need to level up.

839

LET 'EM KNOW!

I agree. I’m super excited for Ultra Gouken.

Also with Gouken’s big damage potential with red focus… he can end rounds pretty darn quickly if given the opportunity

840

Yup yup. In b4 somebody says red focus won’t be that good for Gouken. :slight_smile: