i hope it is enough range to be used as a reasonably safe focus break from s.lk… that would make me pretty happy.
Things I would ask If I could kidnap Combofiend…
Why no adjustments to normal tatsu in any of the 500 updates??
*
Normal version don’t hit low on everybody
-It’s not a reversal
-you can hit hiim out of it
-You can throw him out of it
-Slow Start Ups
-It drops them, with no hard knockdown (poor Gouken)
-if it’s not EX, it’s only used in combos and not as an AA like it was designed to be (too funny).
-AWFUL recovery time (more than most ultras)*
Why doesn’t cr. fp force stand?
-it does have an upward hit box as an AA
-and it would solve some of the tatsu combo problems…
-cl. st. mk too…
Why does Gouken take so long to recover after GF Grab?
-and he switches sides
Why can’t we have an EX version of Air Parry?
Why is EX Tatsu the only move that Gouken has that beats throws???
-He taught the dp for Christ sake
-EX Flip doesn’t count… just walk under it.
Why give Ryu Gouken’s dj mp, but give him more uses from it?
-Why not let both hits cause float state??
-There are multiple characters that can tag you in the air and juggle the shit out of you when they land
-Not to mention the ones that can Ultra you from a normal attack and/or combo you into an Ultra
Why is EX Palm throwable on start up?
-Why is mp and hp throwable on start up?? If it’s blocked he’s fully punishable…
Why can’t Gouken control the second fireball of EX Hado? High or straight forward for 2 hits… (sorta like Seth’s EX Sonic Boom)
-Since Gouken doesn’t have a standard DP, why doesn’t his kongo not lose to non-armored reversals (it should lose to characters waking up) but for resets it should be business as usual.
And if you didn’t want to give him any of the above… Why didn’t you just give him a damn dp in the first place?? Lord knows everybody else has one OR Why didn’t you make back throw a “command throw??”
*Asking all of these questions while administering the Chinese Water Torture Technique and forcing him to play Gouken continuously vs. every damn body
Have you played the latest console version?
He should have an ex air parry for multiple attacks…
If Gouken had a DP he will be broken because of his fireball recovery… When Gouken has a Super stocked he turns into an official Shoto with a 3F DP lol
Overall Gouken has multiple wake up options which makes it a weakness because it’s a guessing game when Gouken is under pressure…
Yes they need to reduce recovery on DF throw so Gouken can do another DF pressure on their wake up.
Need to fix the Kongo’s, get tired of doing an AA Kongo and it loses to a deep jump in attack…
As of right now Gouken is one if those characters that becomes strong with EX moves.
^ yeah it’s few characters that can do 400+ Damage for spending 1 ex bar.
He’s no doubt a threat with ex… But without it he’s kinda limited and DW slows him down a little more bc we will lose a few options to keep them on their backs… I’ve always used HKD to avoid his weak spots but it seems we will have to play a little more riskier with DW and normal jump in set ups won’t be as strong.
^^
Oh I forgot to mention hit mp palm is a good wake up move vs option selects… Since it has start up time and then invincible at a later frame then hits late. Watch how someone attacks your wake up and if they use option selects use the palm and watch how it works…
Just like Cr mp>mpalm vs Prox block OS kongo
If Gouken had a dp… It would be like fighting Guile on steroids.
On my phone but I’ll try to type this out anyway…
Gouken did not get any extra changes or nerfs according to combofiend.
Lp palm combos from almost c. Lk max range, say about his ankle. That’s all I really tested. Sorry. Wasn’t going to waste time vs smug trying out stuff while fighting for my life.
I talked to combofiend which was more productive.
Told him normal tatsu needs vortex as it is useless as is. He asked me what if on whiff it stayed on the ground but I explained to him the long recovery isn’t the issue, the issue is that it drops people when you successfully anti-air, hopefully this will change at some point/next version.
The normalization of backthrow tech: it means that it is teachable like every other throw now, no special timing. It has a tech window of about two frames longer.
I also explained to him what the problem is with high counter vs air attacks, he wasn’t aware of the problem.
I also told him that backthrow is the only throw that can be punished with a neutral jump on wakeup, he said that would get fixed…
Really not much to report. Also told him far St Lk was useless cause it is 6 frames vs 5 for cr Lk.
He said 90 percent of the changes are done, so hold out hope for some little positive tweaks.
very interesting…
Thanks Reipin. Good work whether anything comes of it or not.
BTW just to further explain in detail, backthrow now has the same tech window as all other normal throws plus about two frames or so.
I really like how far you can combo cr.lk xx lp palm. It will be effective for people focusing in your face, especially so with red focus since that will break armor. It doesn’t seem to combo as far from st.lk xx lp palm weirdly enough…
Combo said that he loves to play footsies by buffering EX tatsu into st.lk. For example, Ryu does cr.mk and if you stuff it you get st.lk xx EX tatsu for 240 damage. If he doesn’t do anything you just get two standing lks. I told him it was nice, but ultimately, we wanted st.lk to be cancellable so we would be able to do a hit confirm from light attacks. Since it is 6 frames, can only combo from a chain (and so can’t be used in light hit confirms), and cr.lk has more range and is only 5 frames, the “buff” is minimal and did not do what we actually wanted. I also said admitted that no one was really expecting a 3 frame cr.lp so we can’t really complain too much, but if st.lk was to be truly useful it needs to be 4 frames. It’s just situational as is.
This also led into cl.st.mk and it being a command normal. He was under the impression that on block cl.st.mk moved you forward, citing cl.st.mk xx fireball as evidence. Hence he said if it were a command normal people would just walk forward doing it over and over (3 frame normal) sort of like sakura st.lp (he said he wanted that sort of thing out of the game cause it was “boring”). I told him it only moves you forward if you cancelled it into fireball or whatever. I told him on block it actually pushed you very far away already (he said if it was a command normal it would have to be changed to have a lot of pushback). I told him you can use it to make mashers whiff so that they can’t FADC as well as use it to set up a perfectly spaced overhead on some characters.
Who knows, I doubt it will become a command normal (I admitted it would need hitbox tweaks).
I put in his head the idea of holding down HP on palm to make it go the old HP palm distance and just tapping it to make it go the current distance, but really I hope, if anything, the tatsu thing and counter thing are taken care of. I’d be happy if just those two were taken care of and done with.
In summation, Gouken is the same as you last saw him. Hasn’t gained anything, hasn’t lost anything in terms of changes. Small chance we might get something else but I wouldn’t hold my breath over it.
Thanks!
I guess you’d have mentioned it, but did you happen to bring up the effective range of c.MP->Hadoken with him?
Are there still problems with the second hit of EX palm whiffing at max range? I haven’t heard anything about that.
actually thats pretty interesting… in his gouken change vid he also again highlighted the down + forward extended hitbox of extatsu. maybe that change is not that useless as thought at first?
damn i wanna lab to see if it works when only hitting limbs. maybe i completely underestimated that far.lk buff…
edit: 4fr start up may be a bit much then…
You can see, he barely knows gouken bad design!!!?
Is this the first time a player actually knowledgeable on Gouken got to talk to him?
Good stuff with talking to Combo… I’ll be happy if they at least fix the high counter for deep air attacks…
Considering that at one point Shiine and I were talking to him at the same time and he was having a beer with Capcom’s Hero later on, I doubt I’m the only person who talked to him about stuff.
Maybe I was the first to bring it up or to think it was really important but who knows…
You think he would have talked to Velociraptor at some point.