I usually use the focus system in those scenarios.
Dashing (absorbing) in and grabbing is really good… especially with forward grab.
Force Balrog to use him armor breaks and you can jump punish them. The alternate would be to focus the rest of his bull shit… especially ones that are jab straight heavy.
I focus dive kick characters a lot too… you dont’ want to do them too much or telegraph them… but if I’m outside of their normal jump cross up range… I will focus on them and choose my options from there. Even if you fa lvl 1 and dash out, you are even.
Or you can retreat with back dash and buffer something.
Ryu is overall a better character vs the cast compared to Gouken mainly because in order for Gouken to win you have to know the match up.
The only true block string Gouken has from far distance is his s.lk since they can be chained together.
Learn the art of the c.lk. . C.lk is very good in the Dudley match up…
In Ultra if the ex tat low hit box is at max range, that will be Gouken’s answer to everything with that huge of a hit box. . Going to be like super turbo Sagat lol
Gouken wasn’t the master. Goutetsu was the master. He taught Akuma and Gouken martial arts. Gouken learned a very similar style to Akuma, but refused to indulge the Satsui no Hado. He modified all of the moves to this end (Senkugoshoha is a modified version of Ashura Senku, for example) and altered the style further when teaching it to Ryu and Ken.
Ultra 1 startup decrease: something like 7 frames (can easily be safe jumped). But 11 frames is an eternity.
A little improvement on his kongo’s hitboxes, at least the higher one, to get every jump in (not empty jump throw, not armor breaking moves, not empty jump low).
cr. lp +5, far lk 4f startup (Oni-like combos)
Make his lk tatsu recovery to match a lp dp for Christ’s sake! It’s really just used as a Anti-air anyway, could WORK as one. It’s just stupid that if you miss the old man keeps going up forever and then going down, taking a breather and then taking a beating. PLUS SOMETIMES THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HIT!!! Because that s****y move drops people!!!
While that happens, stupid Oni and Ken can do lpdp consecutively, and not be punished if you are really close. Actually, depending on the distance, you have to punish while they’re on the air, because there’s no time to walk forward or they’ll have recovered before that.
With Gouken, the other person can miss an Ultra, stop to make a sandwich and then come back to a full level 3 focus punish! WHYYYYYY???
I agree with adding more hitstun to far lk. just like Oni’s far lk. The far lk buff being cancellable is useless unless we can combo .
I think a good additional buff is more hit stun on his dive kick. NOT the demon flip dive kick. just his normal jump dive kick. Again, this is for combo purposes. i would like it to have hit stun just like evil ryu’s dive kick.
thoughts?
On another note, has anyone gotten their hands on trying the new build of USF4 from the recent NWM tournament?? Sky Akuma? did any gouken player go?? Would love to know if any changes were made to Gouken.
The hitstun on gouken’s divekick is pretty good actually. The issue is that the downward movement speed is apparently not very good. Gouken’s ends up being a LITTLE worse against standing opponents… but evil Ryu doesn’t really use his divekick in those situations. It’s more useful as a cross-up on wake-up.
If you use gouken’s divekick on the opponent’s wake-up, you can combo into jab and a few other things… just like Evil Ryu.
The only problem I have with the divekick is that it can’t really cross up.
in 4fr safe jump situations i combo close mp off jump down+mk all the time. if done right this can even be a true block string, difficult though… unfortunately DWU…
Yeah I hate that people randomly fall out of normal Tatsus. Back throw->Tatsu for example should be pretty secure, but sometimes people just fall out of the last one, barely…
I think you can counter-act this by performing the tatsu late, but it’s a huge nuisance nonetheless. It would also solve the problem of normal tatsus whiffing after an EX Palm on Sakura and friends.
In Ultra EX Palm will just… so, so much better than his normal tatsus. It’s kind of a huge disconnect, isn’t it? I can’t think of another character right now that is rewarded so profoundly for spending one meter. But I think it’s more because normal tatsus are just lackluster than EX Tatsu being broken. I kind of want to say… give them some invincibility and bring them all to 5 frames, and put a vacuum on them… make them -5 on FADC.
That sounds strong because it is, but let’s not forget that it’s an enormous whiff, and only EX Tatsu reaches the floor…
I like the idea, but it could be less than this.
If they were all 5 frame with vacuum effect and soft knockdown would be enough. No need to be invincible.
Maybe also giving a hard knockdown property on all hits unless the last. That way, if all hits connect, things work as they are supposed. If the opponent falls before that, you are safe.
Also, making the heavy version (at least) hit low too would benefit him in combos. (Oni’s heavy and light tatsus hit low too!). And if they block we’d be punished anyway. I don’t see why not change it.
Anyway, faster recovery on them is a given. It just looks stupid the way it is now.
Is it just me? I think his air tat should have a lot better recovery time, its basically a SF2 Turbo shoto version just long recovery.
Here is my view on the MK dive kick… I think Capcom made it this way since he has a DF dive kick that hits hard that can be combo’ed. The MK dive kick has other purposes like for example…
After a few DF dive kicks this will usually condition the opponent to just block low since Gouken’s and Akuma’s DF dive kick can be block low to eliminate guess block incase a DF sweep is done… so an occasional MK dive will throw them off…
After a sweep or throw (dash forward once after a throw) learn the timing of jumping early and activating the MK dive kick as late as possible (dive kick hits very deep like at the opponents feet) or you can jump early and do the MK dive kick slightly early so it will whiff and sweep and reset the set up… this is a high/low set up I use vs characters with no good wake up like Sakura with no meter, Cody, Makoto etc… I look for this vs these types of characters at the beginning of the match since they have not EX meter…
free jump in to get in close… Since the MK dive kick travels slow it has its benefits, learn the spacing and timing and the MK dive kick has more priority than the DF dive version… example vs Cody and his lame MP AA, learn the estimated distance and jump in and do a dive kick and watch his MP get stuffed… it works on Sakura since it will cause the c.fp to whiff and Viper’s AA you will see come out but will get stuffed. Makoto’s c.mk etc. What this does is get into your opponents head, oh crap my AA got stuffed? Jump in MK dive kick, back throw actually works a lot because the opponent wasn’t ready to tech since they were focusing on hitting you out of the air…
For all character falling out of it, and the chance to start some offense or get away from them, especially if they are close to a corner.
It’s no reason any move should have this many downsides.
-Normal version don’t hit low on everybody
-It’s not a reversal
-you can hit hiim out of it
-You can throw him out of it
-Slow Start Ups
-It drops them, with no hard knockdown (poor Gouken)
-if it’s not EX, it’s only used in combos and not as an AA like it was designed to be (too funny).
-AWFUL recovery time (more than most ultras)
Who the hell is in charge of balancing Gouken?? They should be fired.
Well at least they aren’t nerfing him right now because “in the right hands” he is to dangerous!!! That’s the only problem of listening to all the community, nobody will like it and not everyone will be happy…