Super and Ultra do forced knockdown also but if you can’t delay wake up then I’ll stick to Denjin.
Ultra seems like it will be more ground footsie heavy in knockdown situations since safe jumps won’t be consistent.
Yeah, We will lose some canned set ups for sure… but as far as the manual set ups go… (ah… ha…)
Now that the set ups won’t be canned, it’s going to be interesting to see how many people stick with the old man.
they don’t make duplicates of them keys , you know them keys…no more eh breh? lol
Apparently the console version of USFIV is at Northwest Majors VI in Washington state and Stunfest in France. There have been further changes to the game. No word on Gouken yet though.
i will be really mad if they take something away again from gouken, he could still use some minor buffs…
I’m hoping for additional buffs as well but, this is Capcom we are talking about…
Curiously… what kind of buffs do you still want?
We’re not going to get any new moves or options at this point… probably only frame data/range changes, if that.
there are so many little things without making him broken…
… what i can think of:
more overlapping kongo zones of lp and hp for slightly more consistent results for anti air and vs crouch; no hope for two zone anyway…
cr.lp on block +1fr instead of +0 for better frame trapping; most cr.lp on block are +2fr or more
os throw tech cr.mk not being -5fr (!) on block
slightly better range on b.dash to support his defensive zoning game plan; not chun brokeness of course
one more active frame on far mk and slightly better hitbox for far anti air, make it a bit better as it doesnt hit croucher anyway, besides xxl hurtboxes
far.lk start up down by 1fr to 5fr
u1start up down to 8-9fr from 11fr, reference ryu’s u2; would be good in combination with w-ultra; maybe a bit much but why not if ryu has it and is considered better…
normalization of b.throw start up but with an extended teching period
cr.mp x hado fadc combo usuable during mid range footsies and not only near point blank, would even take a start up nerf by 1fr for that… or alternatively make lp senku combo (not whiff) from near max range of cr.lk or far.lk (possible with pushback decrease?)
close mp and far mp not whiffing in certain crouching hit stun animations
jump down+mk 1fr more hit and block stun for more consistent safe jumps
etc…
just some small ideas to make him better or more consistent without anything new… just frames and hitboxes…
I’d like to see his fireball game changed. There were alot of good ideas about that and Capcom ignored them all.
He would be alot more fun if focus attacks didn’t make his fireballs meaningless or he could charge his fireballs like Sakura to make them bigger for better defense.
I’ll comment on one or two:
I can get behind this
I would really like if far MK was good for something other than a few match-up specific things, so I like this one too.
Not sure about this one… the change to this move was really confusing to me to begin with. I’m not sure how I would go about making it more useful. I know how they want it to be used, but I’m not sure even changing the start-up will get us there. Gouken’s specials are either unsafe, or Hadoken… There’s nothing rewarding and safe that we can buffer it into, to begin with.
Like, let’s say you are against Ryu and you’re using s.LK to beat his c.MK (not even sure if this is possible, just go with me here). What can you actually do, if you hit him? Tatsus aren’t going to reach at the kind of range you’ll be standing at… I’m confused as to how we can apply this, frame data aside.
c.MP is a dangerous move to start buffing. If you make it +5 on hit (which is required for max-range hadokens), Gouken becomes Yun or something, able to chain a bunch of c.MPs together and it also becomes +8 on counter-hit… I don’t think, honestly, that we’re ever going to see that change.
I suggest: less pushback on c.MP (which if I’m not mistaken should give it better comboability), 1 more active frame.
just very quickly …
far.lk is a really good mid range poke and frame trap starter as it is +0 on block, +3 on hit and +4 on counter hit and difficult to whiff punish. considering the range, its a good normal to start poke strings into cr.mp or cr.hk. i do not believe in cancelling it into specials in usf4, but more of a long range poke string starter, mostly out of srk range. if you hit far.lk, a consecutive cr.mp or cr.hk will rarily whiff…
no doubt, cr.mp x hado as mid range combo needs to have some noteworthy changes; something like +7fr on that range is retarded, hence add recovery. but it should not be as easy whiff punishable like evil ryus cr.mk. i am sure there is a way to have it balanced but viable… if the purpose of the normal is to cancel it into specials/hado, recovery is not so crucial anymore if your spacing is right, see evil ryu. but goukens move set would “only” allow fadc cr.hk (dwu) or extatsu (3ex).
Unfortunately that will never happen. But I also dreamt of a immediate 2hit ex hado, while the angle is determined by the pressed buttons similary to Juri (would be a big change/buff though). The current ex hado is quite useless (imo) outside of certain corner combos and rare round ending chip situations. I also think that after they buffed even Ken’s Hado to 70DMG, Gouken could also use a slight DMG buff from 55 to 60 maybe.
And why is his cr.LP damage so low at 20. We do not get much damage out of them anyway, why not at 25 or 30 like many other chars? Look at his muscles 
Gouken’s design or version development is really confusing and contradictory if you look at the details. There are so many little things which would make Gouken more consistent without breaking him or adding anything new… He will never be a contender for top10 anyway.
Is it just me, or is Gouken the only character who has EX mechanics which simply change the “odds?” For example: EX Parry removing your need to guess, EX Gohadoken throwing two fireballs?
It isn’t a good or bad thing, just an interesting observation I guess: most characters have very sharp tools that were made specifically to react to or pre-empt very specific situations. Gouken’s EX Fireball and EX Parry are like… panic buttons by comparison.
Panic buttons which can not be used as such… (not counting USF4 extatsu)
EX fireball is meh… outside of combos, it’s only useful if you think they will jump b/c you’ve been able to keep them from focusing in on you. It’s doable, but hard
The only buff that would make his fireball game better is to make EX 2 hit some now. He just needs the option to just shoot the second one in the air (normally) or to shoot both forward (buff).
That would solve a lot of his so called zoning problems.
I’d like to see mp/hp/ex palm be throw invincible too. I think it would give him a few more mix ups both offensively and defensively. Though it may be a little greedy with the first buff
^^^^Edit^^^^ - Why not have a throw invincible mp/hp/ex palm??? Would that break him?
I would not guess with any of the unsafe palms in throw range anyway as not start up invincible. It would be a punishable guess anyway when trying to beat throws…
But they could improve the anti fireball potential of MP Palm. It does almost not work at all, as invinc. window is most of the time to tight to go thru fireballs. But HP works fine if buffered…
(edit: actually not really necessary; HP works in the right distances…)
Chucking plasma
c.mp into FB doesn’t combo from far because Gouken has slow start up on his fireballs and they all have 1 speed and it isn’t a fast speed, it’s to start up one of Gouken’s main strength (chucking plasma) but it makes up in faster recovery time to enable Gouken to react when you jump over or focus dash his fireballs. This is were Gouken shines, once your opponent blocks a fireball you can start chucking them back to back until your opponent breaks the carnage of incoming plasma.
If Gouken gets the c.mp, fireball combo from far distance Gouken would too be too strong IMO, he would be a beefed up Ryu.
Zangief and T-hawk are my alt characters, depending on how Ultra works Gief will be moved to main and Gouken 2nd lol
Yeah, he should not have it on absolute max range and not as true blockstring, but still Gouken lacks a mid range tool to build soem kind of offense with an (resourceful) fadc option. Against better players cr.mp x LP Hado, even on max range and on hit, is a great risk due to focus, Balrog just headbutting thru into ultra and countless other things. It’s also the reason why Gouken is so lacking on that distance and is forced to retreat. Now DWU comes on top severly hurting his few offense tactics. What is gouken supposed to do when the opp crossed the safe hado border? Sweep until it hits? Caress with far.LK until death?
Ryu will always be the better char as much more all around solid…
I don’t think that having throw inv palm would make him broken, you can intercept them anyway, but two hits hado would be awesome and charge 4!!! Waooooo