I’m having a hard time with Gouken option selects. Can anyone give me an example including the button inputs?
^ [media=youtube]aHHoGHcgK9k&feature=related[/media]
Block. Only tech throws if you predict a throw. Eating 1 throw is fine. Eating 1 ch combo back into vortex is not.
that’s what i’ve been learning hahaha i used to just rhythmically os crouch tech with the attacks but it’s tooooo easy to counter that and you just get TORN UP if it happens.
Hello fellow gouken players.
Today I want to address the GUY matchup and my thoughts on the matter. Personally right now Im having problems with it although I know its due to my own skill. Its a 5-5 and I can c why but Im having problems dealing with guys moves and punishing them.
For starters I would like to ask you guys whats your main gameplan when fighting Guy? What do you do once the match starts up.
Regardless of the that im having problems Punishing His Shoulder move Hazanto. Now I looked at the frame data and it says hes -2 on block with light version Med version -4 and High and EX -6. I know if you c it before hand you can sweep him out of it.
Now while Light and med are pretty Much un punishable (correct me if im wrong i know gouken has a 4 frame jab) Heavy and EX are very punishable according to frame date although it still seems he is safe for some reason?!?!?
Now im in training mode now and it seems his hazanto has a pushback property to it and Im guessing thats why hes somewhat still safe on block. I tried punishing with jab but it dont reach. I try punishing with low short to tastu and we all know about inputs overlaping and getting that unwanted kongo. (Im hoping this is changing with the AE!!!). Now it being -6 heavy and ex on block you would think you could punish with Crouching fierce P since it starts up in 6 frames but thats not working for me. Anyway If I could get some help with this Im certain I am wrong and im doing something wrong here.
I fight my friends guy all the time and he likes to use hazanto and backdash out of it on block ALOT and hes seems safe everytime although ive found and answer for that Lp and MP palm while hes backdashing works wonders. also if you want an untech forward dash sweep works also. Once he learns he will prob start doing ex tastu like move instead and ill be ready to punish on block.
Pretty much the move can easly be sweeped out of but if it catchs you off guard it seems framedatas not helping me although I know im wrong.
Next issue. GUYS Neck Flip from his Run stop bullshit lol. Now its two hits so it cant be focused.yes it can be kongoed but good luck reacting to it. this one also seemed safe on block but framedata tells me its -6. I was actually abel to punish this but the timming seems VERY tight which it should not for being -6 on block. My ways of punshing were
Grab for untech- C Jap tastu C short tastu. and even C Jap Tastu FADC ultra. Now my problem is most of the time when doing tastu kongo comes out and we all know why. So I guess grab would be the best punish.
But anyway Ive been trying to download guy because hes one of my hardest matchs to fight in this game along with BLANKA being first Dalsim second bison third and Guy forth. They are my worst matchs in this game.
[media=youtube]7ednzDV2vww&feature=related[/media]
Ummm WTF! This is out of the blue but this is NOT working for me. Did this get patched or something. Ive tried this like 100 times not working for me lol.
I think that thing would be easier if you do cross-up j.MK beforehand.
From my experience against Guy, countering Hozanto was not really hard. For HP and EX hozanto, i simply block and sweep. Lots of times they’ll cancel LP Hozanto from TC, so in that case I usually block it or backdash out of it. If they get baited and get a raw shoulder out, then I neutral jump j.HP for max punish. In order to beat out Bushin Flip, I usually do neutral jump or jump back j.MP/j.HP.
As for Run -> follow-up, I use cr.LK a lot. When timed right, cr.LK will stuff slide and make neck flip whiff completely. As for the neck flip, unless Guy does it right in front, it will do only 1 hit, which can be focused with ease. If he does it in a blank range, I stick out a cr.LK and sweep afterwards, or if I seem to be sluggish, I block and punish. I usually use cr.MP xx LP Palm or sweep for punishment in this case.
When I face Guy, I usually try to zone them out with hadou and see what they’re trying to do in order to bypass the wall of fireballs. Unless I see a bushin flip or a jump-in, I never jump back because I don’t want to be in the corner with Guy pressuring me. I also think this is the match I use cr.LK really often. I still have a problem with EX Run’s 2-hit armour though =[. I’m not an expert Gouken, so I would like more discussion on this match-up as well.
Fun factor: Back throw -> walk forward c.LK reset -> MK Flip kick crosses up on CROUCHING Guy. I try it for fun when he doesn’t have meter and if he likes down-back. It’s hard to connect Back Throw though.
Get close asap and start cross and mixup shenanigans.Bait his tatsu both reg and ex. W / empty safe jumps.then punish. Jump in and out mp /rh this will stop his aerial attempts and will win or trade vs most attacs.
Thanks for ur input! . Now you mention you never jump back unless you c a bushin flip. Nice tactic. I never think about getting traped in the corner hince why it prob happens to me all the time. Guys Run stop bullshit scares me and I tend to jump back and not even think about where im standing. I need to start holding my ground and i need better reaction time to his moves.
It seems standing is the worst thing to do while fight guy he can do that slide to freaking quick although if you block it free punish. if you crouch you stop him from being able to air grab you from bushin flip and hit you from slide. But then they will try overhead which is not THAT quick but still hard to react to. He has many ways around your projectiles so I try not to throw them as much. Pretty much I got the matchup down I just need better reaction time now.
So pretty much its like this
Neck Flip= Kongo or block punish -6 on block
Slide= punish -10 i think on block.
Bushin grab= couch block or jump back mp or FP HK
Elbow drop= Kongo Standing Close HK depends on distance
Hazanto = HP and EX version Sweep or punish otherwise LP and MP versions are bullshit ass safe!
I just need to aplly this and more along with better reaction time and I should be good. thanks again for your input.
Interesting. I do feel I dont get aggressive like I should in this matchup. He dont got a good reversal besides his god like Ex tastu SO I should be pressuring the hell out of him more and mix up smart. I make good use of jump back Mp but I never you RH. So Rh works as well? Jumping forward works too? I though that would result in him grabing you faster. Guy often has my scared to jump because of that REDUNKULAS air grab he has.
Any crossup on an expert Guy player is a free autocorrect EX Tatsu I believe.
I’m not saying “You should never cross up Guy.” I’m saying that when I play a character with a fast reversal uppercut, I go out of my way to punish crossups with autocorrect uppercuts to break down their oki game. A lot of opponents don’t know what to do if you take away their crossups. Don’t let this happen to you.
Any expert Guy will run.slide your second fireball.
With the “second” i mean that you can throw his guard off sometimes and throw a single fireball from time to time, but if you try to zone him with fireballs he will be aware, and as soon as he sees the fireball animation he can run.slide under it, he don’t even need ex run, and he can hit you from almost full screen.
Air-fireball is still good in reaction to a jump or flip-jump, but only in reaction, not in anticipation.
This matchup is different for Gouken because any fireball is forbidden, and then you can’t zone guy at all. It is like the ibuki matchup but guy don’t even needs ex to break your fireball game.
All I will say is in session you’ll see my theories applied. Since so many have theorized gouken into a virtual corner with the “never do…this…” It prevents some from wanting to try new stuff. I have personally stuffed almost everything , save certain anti-air ultras w j.mk both deep on the frontside (at the knees)and crossup (back hip). I continue to play my style regardless of the forums. Don’t let what anyone tells you prevent you from exploring. Almost any punch or kick beats any other one when timed or placed accordingly vs anyhitbox.
No one believes me till they see a walkup throw beat a wakeup srk that there are still some info you won’t find in these forums.
We should session a lot more bro.
There is a hole on ther backside of ex tatsu you can empty crossup, jump over w no attack and you will slip right thru it.
I hear you taken flight i looking forward to more training sessions Im very dedicated to taking my gouken to a world class level of skill.
Now to be honest I did not know guys EX run had armor frames lol. the armor frames run out pretty quick making it not that useful unless they are doing mixups right in your face. I think they are fixing this in AE though which is fair guy needs it.
Taken Flight Im looking forward to seeing you fight my friend. Next session I will invite him and prevent him from leaving lol. Hes going to be our test dummy heh
^and it won’t get beat by auto correct , so far as I’ve seen.
I completely agree. The ?Never do this? approach stops you from growing and becoming predictable. No move it SSF4 is unstoppable. Its just a matter of knowing when and where to strike.
Thanks for adding me on xbl. Let me know when you are running sessions. I need a lot of practice.
Thanks for the advice. I play casuals with one of Canada?s top players, and he mains Guy. His Guy is quite orthodox, but very effective. He has a vortex of some sort. I need to figure out how to max punish.
I just really picked up super for the first time a couple weeks ago and I had no idea how different Gouken felt in super from vanilla. I’m still sticking with him but I am having total fucking hell with bison and boxer (two characters that used to not really give me problems). Are these super tough matches now or am I just rusty from a 9 month retirement?
All rush down characters give gouken a hard time. Its just a matter of knowing your match ups and knowing when and where to punish.
All Bison can do to you if you block is chip damage or throw you. The worst Boxer can do to you is an overhead.
Against rushdown characters, get them to respect the Kongoshin, and then stop using it. Most players will go far out of their way to bait it by doing stuff like empty jump throw and then you just tech the throw and reset the situation.
Has anyone tried the OS with meaty dj.hk > sweep / ex tatsu?
I don’t know if im doing correctly. Ive done in training mode with the inputs displayed, but online, it seems like the ex tatsu comes out even if the opponent blocks.
Theres an episode of the Excellent Adventures of Gooteks and Mike Ross with Justing Wong playing as Gouken using only using HP. LOL.