Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Hakan’s game is somewhat predictable (other reason why he’s low tier), but can be annoying. My Hakan notes:

  • Keep him away, period.
  • Especially keep him away when he’s oiled. Once he’s oiled, kara grabs and that mashable SPD grab ahoy!
  • His jump arch is junk and highly susceptible to MP/HP fireballs.
  • He WILL slide at you, frequently. Bait that slide with fake fireballs. Once he commits to a non EX slide, you can punish really bad.
  • Hakan’s HP/HK normals aren’t fast, but have good priority in air and do big damage. Expect them up close and you can kongo quick.
  • Hakan is a grappler, bait his grabs, look for empty jump-ins. Once he has oil, the range is extended for all of them. Combine EX + oil, you will get grabbed through block string.
  • More than likely, Hakan will pick U2 as his ultra. I tend to lol at this selection since its so obvious when he’ll try to do it. Just avoid coming at him or flying near him once he has it. I tend to stay as grounded as possible and LK demon flip to bait it out.
  • Hakan’s main goal is the knock-down mixup. Hakan has NO crossover, so you’re looking at empty jump-ins, block strings where he can oil up SPD, etc.

My typical game plan:

  • Get full screen and start the fireball war. Don’t be overly predictable with this, he’ll start the slide and immediate mixup.
  • Once he’s close, he will go for command grabs or empty jumps or hitting you with his normals. Demon flip mixups are good (when he doesn’t have U2) and Hakan does have problems with this.
  • Once I Hakan OFF of me, I go back to a bit of a fireball war and make him come at me.
  • Neutral jumping really toys with Hakan (when spaced well). Neutral jump HP stuffs a lot of what Hakan will attempt up close.
  • Bait. Bait. Bait. Hakan wants you to apply block string pressure so he can spam oiled/EX SPD. Hakan wants you to toss fireballs so he can slide. Baiting these to punish shuts him down.
  • Last, but not least: c.HP. His jump-ins tend to get stuffed with c.HP!
  • When you score any knockdown, go at him. His moves are bad when you crossup and apply demon pressure mixups if he’s not oiled, doesn’t have EX or isn’t ready for U2.
  • Avoid any form of air pressure at him when he has U2. Its not worth ANY attempt – that U2 is so easy to land, has massive range, etc.

Don’t get me wrong, Hakan can do BIG damage fast, but I don’t tend to fear him online. I have lost to Hakan’s, but it was more due to stupid mistakes and not baiting enough (which I learned after losing).

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Just wanted to post this link. it will help tell you what are goukens options are for any match up. WAMO On Block? - by bubafeast enjoy.

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Hakan’s anti-airs are so bad that his U2 is his only 100% reliable anti-air. It also beats crossups and wakeup DP’s.

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i think it is a good choice against gouken too but jumping at him on his wakeup and tatsu’ing away seems to bait it out every time.
it suffers from being one of those u2’s that you never have to get hit by, like zangief’s, abel’s, cammy’s and fei long’s.
the greatest strength of those ultras is how the opponent limits himself after they become active.

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Ooh! [media=youtube]r3OuQiGoFNU[/media]. :stuck_out_tongue: I’ll drop what I know.

First, I wouldn’t sleep on Hakan in this match! I actually think it might be one of Hakan’s (very few) good matchups.

Hakan and Gouken are pretty similar… They’re both bruisers who don’t have a good get-off-me reversal or 3-frame normals, so they get bullied when under pressure. So I think this match is all about momentum (most Hakan matches are I think).

Gouken’s fireball zoning isn’t exactly scary for Hakan. I think Hakan should be able to eventually get in regardless, and since all of his knockdowns are un-techable, he can always easily get back in and *maintain *his high-damage pressure, especially against a character like Gouken.

For example, until Gouken gets ultra meter, Hakan can do safe slide after every knockdown and Gouken has no answer for it at all. Anything Gouken tries will just result in nice damage for Hakan and probably another meaty slide again. So he has to block it, take the 17 chip, the -2 frame disadvantage, and play the high damage guessing game afterward. Sorta like Abel, but if step-kick did chip damage, beat focus attacks/counter, and made EX-hurricane whiff.

Some notes:

  • When zoning with FBs, Hakan can slide cleanly under from more than half screen if he calls it. Be especially careful with the upward FBs, he can slide those for free from anywhere.

  • Charging a FB is a bad idea, because you’re making it easier for him to slide under them.

  • At full screen he’ll probably try to oil up, even eat a fireball in process. Hakan has the most health in the game when oiled, so he doesn’t care. See if you can bait the oil and EX-GF grab him on reaction instead. If he does EX-oil, punish him hard. EX-oil is a shitty move.

  • His EX-slide is completely immune to projectiles, so be careful about doing c.MP into FB when he has meter, etc.

  • If oiled, EX-slide is a fullscreen bullet! No more fireballs! This is why I don’t think you can rely on pure FB zoning, because this situation is inevitable.

  • Hakan doesn’t have any jumping attacks that point downward. None. You should be able to anti-air him every time (and you should! Don’t let him in!) I like c.MK into GF for free pressure, or c.MK into FB if he has U2 because it is also safe EX-slide bait. From afar, s.MK can work well. Jump back HP is also surprisingly good.

  • Hakan does not have a good reversal, so knockdowns or resets into GF are good against him (aside from U2). He is also exceptionally fat, so crossup divekicks are easy.

  • Raw GFs are probably a bad idea though, and cancelling normals into GFs are definitely a terrible idea (Hakan can airthrow/j.MP)

  • High counter beats ALL of Hakan’s normals, except for crouching LK/MK. Everything else? High counter eats it up.

  • Hakan’s f+RH lunging step kick is -5 on block. Low jab into hurricane if you can.

  • Don’t be afraid of 360+P when Hakan is dry, because it has the same range and startup as regular throw. You can actually throw him out of it, even EX.

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Whoa, it is Nos99! Welcome!

Is it just Gouken’s fireball that Hakan can easily handle due to it being higher, or is it most fireball in general?

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Most characters stop throwing fireballs once Hakan gets oiled up, in fear of oiled EX-slide. Not Guile so much, but he can go eff himself. :rofl:

208

Hakan can non-EX slide underneath Gouken’s fireballs I believe. Same for Ibuki’s neck breaker? Not positive.

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^ He can, but it’s pretty quirky…

During the non-EX slide startup, Hakan isn’t low enough to go under the FB. So he has to start the slide a bit before the fireball is near him, so he’s flat on his belly.

Also, once down on his belly, he will stick his back legs up into the air. For the fierce slide, these legs can get hit by the fireball! This is why the fierce slide often trades. Strong and Jab slides don’t have this problem vs projectiles (strong=legs are projectile immune, jab=legs are invincible), but they don’t have the same range as fierce slide either.

So, at about half screen (maybe a little more), he can do Strong/Jab slide and go under the fireball cleanly… but again, he has to start them a bit early, so he’s flat on his belly.

A little too much information for ya… :stuck_out_tongue:

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Obviously you’ve never had a gouken player wakeup shin sho on you :smiley:

Also if the slide is hitting really meaty can’t you backdash it?

EX Oil through fireballs seems pretty safe (It’s fireball invincible to anyone who didn’t know).

I thought the EX 360+P was throw invincible when oiled?

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If Hakan is giving you trouble then you need to clean your game up. There really isn’t anything Hakan can do against Gouken besides slide under fireballs. Also Kikuichimonji, if Hakan does EX oil full screen you can throw out a HP palm and punish him. EX Oil has stupid amounts of recovery.

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You mean even if he does it through a fireball? And I don’t mean waiting for the fireball to get close to him, I mean EX Oiling as soon as he reacts to the fireball.

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I don’t know about fullscreen, but I’ve caught him out of it with a MP palm from about 3/4th screen length. You can try and bait it with far MP.

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Which is why I said “until Gouken gets ultra meter” :stuck_out_tongue:

Funny thing, if he delays the slide, it will actually trade with shinsho, and Hakan gets about double the damage on the trade.

If you backdash, the slide will whiff… but Hakan recovers first, gets a free 360 into another meaty slide.

EX 360+P is always invincible, oiled or not. Oil just adds more range+damage, that’s it. 360+P has 2 frames startup, grabs on the 3rd and 4th frames, ex versions are invincible for all these 4 frames.

But it’s only strike-invincible. He can be thrown the entire time. Sucks!! lol

…and EX-oil is awful awful move. Even if he avoids the fireballs, you can still usually hit him. A lot of Hakans never use it… 88 frames of recovery sucks. :confused:

215

Found a new corner pressure string on Adon, I don’t know how many other characters it works on, but I pulled it on my friend the other day and it seems to be pretty good at the moment. Doesn’t look like it works on the shotos, I’m going to have to see who all it works on.

jump in/GF dive > cl.MP > LP hadou > cr.MP > LP hadou > far HK > cr. MP > LP hadou

EDIT:
Ok, so the reason that last cr.MP > Hadou landed was because he stopped blocking. Doesn’t work on Adon if he blocks the whole thing, so I have to rework who it lands on. I know for a fact it will land on Fei Long even if he blocks, needs more testing.

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It’s a good frame trap, but any move that has an invincible start up can reversal you during the gaps within the frame trap (ie. the places that attacks do not combo).

If they try to normal, walk, or jump out they will get tagged.

It’s an effective strategy provided you have some extra mix up around it. Good find.

217

Well all frame traps carry some sort of risk I believe. It’s a gamble, but it’s pretty good chip and as you said if they make the wrong move they get tagged. I need to work out who all it works on and make a list so we have a definitive way to know which matchups to use this in. I’d probably use it against Fei Long any chance I got seeing as how the only invincible move he has is chicken wing and with that motion I don’t see anyone pulling that out of their ass in a couple frames. I don’t remember if it’s fully invincible or just fireball invuln either, so there’s a chance a cr.MP would hit him if the latter is true.

EDIT:
Characters CONFIRMED Possible: Honda, Ibuki, Makoto, Gouken, Akuma, Gen, Dan, Sakura, Chun Li, Dhalsim, Viper, Bison, Sagat, Cammy, Dee Jay, Cody, Guy, Hakan, Rufus, Fuerte, Vega, Balrog, Fei Long, T. Hawk, and Rose.

25/35 characters possible.

BONUS: While messing around I found out this little midscreen combo from focus crumple. It’s character specific, probably doesn’t work on people with an odd crumple (Dan) or people that fall out of Tatsu, but it’s meterless, so that’s always nice.

FA > LP Hadou > cr.LK > HK Tatsu. Level 3 FA netted 333 damage and 395 stun. Slightly more damage than a cl.HP > HP palm, not as much stun.

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Against Abel. WTF?! Do you do when he is rushing you down with cr.shorts n’ jabs, fwd+mk’s and etc.

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spam EX counter & pray lol

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kongo allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll day