In most cases yeah, but they can also back dash or jump out and punish you for whiffing gf grab. The dive kick can help you beat both since you can option select the dive kick if they back dash and it stuffs the jump out. Its not the end all be all strategy but its a good additon to your meta game, and a great suprise attack for those crouchers, apply it where u can. Its just another tool in the arsenal.
Hello. New here.
I was wondering. This may come off as a troll question, but what is the generally accepted match ratio vs. Dan. I personally believe its not that hard (as the first post said, its Ryu and Ken without the fireballs. But I’ve heard that Dan can option select Gouken to the point of having the advantage.
I know how silly this sounds.
The big problem with dan is his spamable armorbreaking lk.tatsu. the lk version acts a lot like sagats tigerknee and shuts down a lot of gouken’s game. he recovers too fast to exflip out, so you are left with ex.tatsu and ultra. Which means you gotta save up your meter for a getout from that, which makes it harder to get max damage elsewhere. That’s been my experience, at least.
Dan vs Gouken is about 5:5. His armor break is really good, making Kongo next to useless. Plus he have very decent wake up mix up. His lack of fireball isn’t really a problem against Gouken cause Gouken wins most fireball war anyways. His unpredictable jump path and armor breaking block string make him rather difficult to deal with. Plus all his opening are not easy to punish with HP, which Gouken really need in order to do huge damage since Gouken can’t combo much with anything faster. All these in my opinion gains him a pretty solid 5.
I’m going to re-vamp this thread with a new one when the DLC update launches, thanks to everyone who contributed.
would be cool if it were in page by page format . like a book or a guide. pg 1 akuma pg 2 garuda/jk but yeah more of less like that
^ What do you mean? You’d like to see it 1 character per post?
I was thinking 2 or 3 characters per post. Right now it’s kind of random.
1 character per thread might be the best. 2 or 3 works too, long as topic name is labeled clearly with link going to those thread formated in the first post of this thread.
I’m probably going to do 2 characters per thread. When DLC launches we will be looking at 40+ characters and no one should have to look through 2 pages to find a match up I think that’s a bit o.d. I going to reserve the first 25 posts so a new thread will never be needed again, instead I could just shift everything between those 25 posts. That way I can compile almost everything match up related to that character including more links to vids and b.s. they we know or find out.
The first post will have just general info on Gouken etc. and then then match up info will follow. The format is going to be the same for the most part.
I’m not touching it until DLC launches b/c no one knows who the new characters are yet.
First, making all those post is going to make tracking on update for each match up very hard. We wouldn’t know when to add detail.
However, at the same time. Making 40 new threads, or even 20 for each set of characters is annoying…
It almost sound like we need a dedicated web app for this. Forum thread just don’t cut it, but anything external would not have enough exposure and will receives very little attention.
As long as it is posted within the match up thread I usually try to add it as long as it is fresh information.
If someone would like to design a web based app, just for Gouken’s match up info… Please be my guest.
I might give that a shot. I am abit worried that anything not in shoryuken.com would be left unused. But I guess a web app designed for characters specific match up / moves info doesn’t need to be shoryuken only.
Good info. is good info. > I would like to see that, keep me in the loop.
Before the thread is done, here are my notes on Dan
NOT like Ryu/Ken with his fireball game. Ryu/Ken can play fireball game from full screen and Dan is only about half the screen away. At full screen distance, Dan is at a disadvantage against Gouken’s zone game. You want Dan the complete screen away from you at ALL times. Since Dan can’t out fireball the complete screen away, he will constantly try to get close on you with dashes. Once he is about 2/3 screen away, expect him to start jumping over fireballs and doing his tatsu to fly over more – punish with c.HP.
Dan is highly effective at just your sweep distance, so you need to keep him back. Once Dan is in that range, he is just as good a Ryu/Ken with his pokes, sweeps and mind games. Dan lives and breathes with that EX meter. Once he has that, he WILL go for his EX tatsu with block strings or spam EX shoryu – they both will punish poorly spaced poke strings.
If/when Dan gets in, he’s going for the shoto mixup game: crossover, pokes, grab, poke to grab. While Dan has EX meter, he is extra dangerous with this mixup since both his tatsu and shoryu will armor break or go right through anything you try to do on wake (minus u1).
Watch out for that demon flip mixup against Dan. Since his fireballs aren’t THAT great, the better Dans will limit their use of them and be 100% ready for your flip. Once he has EX, that demon flip will be a complete waste and EX flips are nearly useless since he won’t play the fireball game full screen.
Finally, watch out for Kongo use without EX meter. He has too many armor breaking specials and not great normals to poke with. Dan will definitely go for armor break specials over normals and that hurts kongo.
Thanks for the tip, Vash. I’ve actually had trouble playing against Dans because my closeup game is shady at best and can’t FADC, which is probably my strongest weapon, due to his tatsu
I NEED SERIOUSLY HELP VS. AKUMA! I don’t know if I’m just playing mind games with myself, but I just can’t seem to beat most Akumas. On wakeup, I can’t escape his flip and followthrough, whether it’s the throw, palm, or kick. Even if I block the palm, it seems like he can continue to combo; whenever I do a cr. lk or tech throw, he still seems to have the advantage and I get punished badly. It could be my timing; could someone please provide some hints vs. Akuma? I also can’t FADC due to his HK. The only techniques I can use are the palm when he uses fireballs (I’m really bad on executing on command =/) and Gouken flip. Any other ideas?
AND I HATE BALROG’S COMBOS. It seems like they just keep on punching forever. I always wait for the opportunity to cr. lk > tatsu, but I can’t do that for all his dash punches because it doesn’t reach or my timing is a little off. It’s so frustrating :annoy:.
Don’t get knocked down, if you get knocked down, try to notice patterns in his mixups and predict what he’s going to do. For example, if they cancel s.hp into DF, usually most people are going for DF throw. You can punish DF throw with EX Tatsu or jump back hk/hp, even on wakeup.
Against Akuma you HAVE to block on wakeup because he can safejump all your reversals with a DF palm and that will armor break the counter too.
You can get a lot more damage playing a spacing game vs Akuma. Usually when I knock him down I moreso want to try to punish a teleport than do a real mixup.
Thanks for the advice. I’ll keep in mind to block on wakeup; I’m usually too concerned with trying to avoid getting hit and I try to dash/jump back or do EX flip.
As an Akuma player, this is what I’ll go for: HK pokes (seriously, its wonderful), knock downs and mixups.
For HK pokes, the spacing is pretty obvious when Akuma will do it. Kongo is a good way to stop that shenanigans. You can also block a single HK poke and kongo the second hit if you’re REALLY fast, but I don’t recommend it.
Once Akuma knocks you down, the vortex is:
- Demon flip in front of you to palm. Palm armor breaks and he ISN’T touchable after even if you block it. Akuma is now also at the perfect distance to poke you into a big combo or grab. Seriously, this is BOSS.
- Demon flip behind you (once he knows the spacing) to do the same thing. Once he’s on the other side, he’s poking to combo you.
- Slightly later demon flip to grab. You simply have to play against a lot of Akuma’s to spot the timing of when he’ll do that. If he goes for grab, you have time to neutral jump and punish.
- Crossover tatsu + combo or sweep. This you have to block correctly and it simply takes practice for it.
- If you’ve been victimized enough against this, Akuma will then go for the dive kick which will then lead to a nasty combo.
In MOST of these situations, you have to block. IF you have EX meter, the only thing that really saves you is an EX tatsu. The guessing game is 33/33/33 in Akuma’s favor and blocking is really the best option. Once you keep blocking the attacks, Akuma will start going for grabs – be prepared to tech them.
My battle plan against him:
- Play the fireball game better than him. Akuma WILL throw air fireballs and fly around a lot. At full away, mix up the LP/MP/HP fireballs. Akuma will fly at you with the demon flip. Once he has EX meter, he’ll use it for his flip and punish you quick. Be extra careful when he has it.
- Prepare to kongo his HK spam. He will go for it and he’ll do it often. Once a few kongos happen to that poke, he’ll be much more careful.
- Kongo should be use sparingly!!! Do not even think about using it when you’re on the ground and he’s applying on wake pressure.
- Bait Akuma with your demon flip. Use the LK/MK flips to gain ground, not always to make your way in. Once he’s used to you not coming in, he may not try to punish.
- Test out Akuma’s knowledge of the matchup BY coming at him with HK demon flip and using parry. If he doesn’t know the matchup, he’ll try to punish with LP shoryuken (you’ll survive). If he knows the matchup, he will punish with HP shoryuken (ouch).
My brother and I play Gouken A LOT and even my so-so Akuma will give him fits up close. It’s seriously a matchup in Akuma’s favor (esp up close) and you simply need many matchups to get it right.
Thanks for this much needed info. I always think my timing is off when Akuma uses his DF + palm, but it’s nice to know that that’s not the case. I think I’m just gonna have to focus on the DF patterns that people use. It especially sucks after playing the same Akuma a few times, getting owned and having him trash talk.
I played two matches in the same day against someone on PSN with 14k BP for Hakkan and only managed to win once. Figure I will add a few things.
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DO NOT bait his U2 with EX tatsu to escape. Gouken hit box extend very far down and Hakkan hit box actually extend above quite a bit. You would have to do it at the peak of your jump to escape, any lower and you will still get hit.
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Hakkan slides under hoduken a lot, there is a specific timing where he can slides under Gouken’s hadouken. Watch out for that. The Ex one can almost always go through clean.