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Beast of Fire=guardian of all that is GGXX.

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You guys…

Are underestimating May. Not that I mind, really.

I will not argue that she belongs higher than the lower tier. I think she’s down there. However, I also think that a few characters that haven’t been mentioned are potentially worse than May.

I remember seeing a character chart in Japanese describing matchups. You know, like best out of 10. The worst matchups were Chipp/Potemkin and Potemkin/Dizzy. In any event, May was not the worst on the chart. However, this is not great evidence of anything as I can no longer find the chart and it may possibly be outdated.

I think that Venom is better than May overall. However, if he didn’t have his purple eyeball of death super he’d be the worst in the game. That’s kind of like saying: “if Sol didn’t have the ability to jump he’d suck” but I like stupid arguments that make sense.

I don’t think Potemkin is very good. I know he’s godlike with his damage but against a smart player who knows how Potemkin works it’s really difficult to make any progress toward your opponent. Granted, when you do you can do 50 percent combos with ease. Plus, he has some really difficult matchups against certain characters.

Testament, I believe, was ranked lowest. I think it’s because of his lack of offensive options. I know he’s got a mad 60 percent combo in the corner, and his defense can be pretty formidable, but compared to all of the other characters that doesn’t seem to be that good to me.

Poor Zappa always gets ranked with May in the “everyone who sucks in this game” in a lot of the arguments I hear. Poor poor Zappa.

Chipp takes mad damage and does little damage on the whole. He also has really really crappy range. His blinding speed does not make up for all of this on the whole.

These are just a few of the characters that may either be worse than May or are just about as good as May. Of course, I could be wrong. I’d like to know what you guys think.

I also think that BOF is underestimating May’s defense. May’s 6p is one of the best in the game, dizzying most people on 3-4 hits by itself. May’s 6HS does good damage and covers a lot of space. May’s ground pokes are also really good and do decent damage. She’s also got wicked air combos that easily do 40 percent without an RC or FRC. Don’t forget about her two supers with invincibility frames (Whale and HS super) which can practically be thrown out whenever you want.
And about how May has nothing to do when her opponent is far away from her…c’mon man, throw out a dolphin. Run in and poke. Jump around like a loon. Hold a dolphin so they spawn and produce more dolphins. Show some respect. :slight_smile:

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I have to disagree with Scamp on the Potemkin comment. I realize that I play Potemkin, so I’m a bit biased though. I’ve found that to get really good with him (based on videos and a little experience), you need to master the hammerfall cancel and the FDB. Getting a good mixup down is a little tough too, but doable. I think Pot’s pretty easy to learn, but really hard to master. Sure he’s got a bad matchup against Dizzy, but everyone has one or two characters that gives them trouble.

164

You guys…

I think that’s BS, since I’ve seen several Venom players who have gone whole matches without using that super and won them, against Millia no less. He needs the super, but he would still be better than May without it.

You should watch some matches featuring Potemkin. You’d be amazed at how he can rush and get in your face, and with the threat of huge damage always present, a lot of people get ruffled. He’s harder to keep away than you think he is. All it takes is one messup in positioning and you get knocked down, he dashes over you, and now you’ve got a big burly man with huge throw range breathing down your neck.

Testament isn’t awesome, but he’s got very nasty mixups on a downed opponent that can lead to another combo to knockdown or to a powerful combo near the corner. Better offense than May can attest to, as well as better defense.

On the contrary, his sheer number of movement options do make up for it. It is not hard to get in close with Chipp. He’s a skill character. His range is not an issue mainly because of how easy it is for him to get in on you (note that he can also do a tigerkneed Alpha Blade from almost full screen distance and knock you down, and a TK AB recovers almost instantly). Gamma Blade is a good ranged poke as well. He can do some decent damage on a hit and has good in-close pressure along with some excellent mindgames on a knockdown. True, he can’t take a hit, but he can get his hits in pretty easily.

As has been stated before, raw stats matter less when you can’t hit your opponent. May’s problem is no priority. At all. All that pretty damage she can do means nothing because she can’t land a damn hit. Well-played Chipp will rush you and mixup constantly to make you block incorrectly and then do good damage. Well-played Testament knocks you down once and proceeds to pressure you for the rest of the round. Well-played Potemkin gets in your face and throws you or pounds on you constantly. What does well-played May do? Jump around a lot, throw out random pokes, and pray that they mess up. Practically nothing scary or guaranteed.

Incredibly crappy range. At least Venom’s has some diagonal range. Her’s is all forward and rarely hits outside of combo.

Slow and telegraphed. Dash at her, FD to break the dash, block, punish.

Decent range, but most of them are way too slow. They also lack priority (not good).

Problem is that she CAN’T HIT THE OTHER GUY. Damage means nothing when you can’t connect. And supers w/invulnerability are by and far very small factors in this game, where baiting attacks is far too easy. Go ahead and throw out a whale, waste your Tension while I jump over it. HS super is crap, no range, only good in combos.

Run in and poke? You’ll get out-poked most of the time. Jump around like a loon means nothing if you don’t have life advantage (and even then, not a good idea if you’re on defense). Throwing out a dolphin presents no threat or setup. Hold a dolphin leaves you wide open, and if you get hit then your dolphins go away. Present something USEFUL AND THREATENING to do at long range. It’s like Sol throwing Gun Flames from afar, gets you nowhere fast; all you’re doing is trying to provoke a rush or attack from your opponent.

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Re: You guys…

This is good stuff, but c’mon. No argument like this is sound. I’ve seen May players (myself, actually) get a perfect on Axl. Against Axl, no less. It’s true that he doesn’t need the super, but it does SO much damage that he has to do a lot of work to make up for it. If you still think Venom is better, that’s fine.

**
You should watch some matches featuring Potemkin. You’d be amazed at how he can rush and get in your face, and with the threat of huge damage always present, a lot of people get ruffled. He’s harder to keep away than you think he is. All it takes is one messup in positioning and you get knocked down, he dashes over you, and now you’ve got a big burly man with huge throw range breathing down your neck.**

I’ve lost many, many matches to Potemkin and I know he can be played really well. But just because a character has good stuff doesn’t mean that he’s good overall. Most of the matches featuring Potemkin that I see scare the living crap out of me. I’ll admit it. But I never see a Potemkin match where he never gets his offense started or his opponent keeps evading his mixups and zones out Poti effectively. IMO that’s the best way to beat him, it’s all about playing smart. My personal opinion is that he’s better than May, but not that much better.

**
Testament isn’t awesome, but he’s got very nasty mixups on a downed opponent that can lead to another combo to knockdown or to a powerful combo near the corner. Better offense than May can attest to, as well as better defense.**

May has a very good high/low mixup game as well. I’ve seen some really good Testaments, but they don’t have the offensive options that May has. If Testament can’t knock his opponent down, Testament probably isn’t going to win. I think you’re seriously underestimating May’s offensive potential.

**
On the contrary, his sheer number of movement options do make up for it. It is not hard to get in close with Chipp. He’s a skill character. His range is not an issue mainly because of how easy it is for him to get in on you (note that he can also do a tigerkneed Alpha Blade from almost full screen distance and knock you down, and a TK AB recovers almost instantly). Gamma Blade is a good ranged poke as well. He can do some decent damage on a hit and has good in-close pressure along with some excellent mindgames on a knockdown. True, he can’t take a hit, but he can get his hits in pretty easily.**

Can’t really argue with you on these points. I can say that I don’t agree that his movement options make up for it. Still, I’ve lost some matches to good Chipp players so I could be very wrong.

**
As has been stated before, raw stats matter less when you can’t hit your opponent. May’s problem is no priority. At all. All that pretty damage she can do means nothing because she can’t land a damn hit. Well-played Chipp will rush you and mixup constantly to make you block incorrectly and then do good damage. Well-played Testament knocks you down once and proceeds to pressure you for the rest of the round. Well-played Potemkin gets in your face and throws you or pounds on you constantly. What does well-played May do? Jump around a lot, throw out random pokes, and pray that they mess up. Practically nothing scary or guaranteed.**

May isn’t playing randomly. May is trying to set up her heavy-hitting combos. May can put on scary pressure with her JI FRC dolphin attacks. Surely you’ve seen the May vs. Dizzy or May vs. Johnny vids by Koinuma.

Plus, I don’t think anything by any character is guaranteed.

**
Incredibly crappy range. At least Venom’s has some diagonal range. Her’s is all forward and rarely hits outside of combo.**

May’d 6p is pretty safe and goes through a lot of things. Things such as Faust’s standing HS and Ky’s standing S. Please tell me you’re not thinking this move is used as an attack and not a defensive counterattack.

**
Slow and telegraphed. Dash at her, FD to break the dash, block, punish.**

May’s 6HS can be cancelled into a Mr. Dolphin if it connects. Thus, she’s practically safe.

**
Decent range, but most of them are way too slow. They also lack priority (not good).**

May’s ground pokes lack priority? Are you sure? Most characters don’t have an answer to May’s ducking slash from my experience, unless they can outrange it. May’s standing kick is pretty fast and chains into her standing slash. But hey, May’s ground pokes aren’t a major part of her game.

**
Problem is that she CAN’T HIT THE OTHER GUY. Damage means nothing when you can’t connect. And supers w/invulnerability are by and far very small factors in this game, where baiting attacks is far too easy. Go ahead and throw out a whale, waste your Tension while I jump over it. HS super is crap, no range, only good in combos. **

The HS super has invincibility frames and is May is completely safe afterwards if it hits. This makes it great for wakeups and for countering rushing attacks. It also has good range, I don’t know why you say the range is crap. Baiting the whale super is not a good argument against it. Sure, you can bait it and I’ll feel dumb afterwards but if I guess correctly and you threw out an attack Shamoo will hit you and then I’ll combo you after you bounce off the wall.
It’s kind of like saying Sol’s uppercut is crappy because you can bait it and then combo him afterwards.

**
Run in and poke? You’ll get out-poked most of the time. Jump around like a loon means nothing if you don’t have life advantage (and even then, not a good idea if you’re on defense). Throwing out a dolphin presents no threat or setup. Hold a dolphin leaves you wide open, and if you get hit then your dolphins go away. Present something USEFUL AND THREATENING to do at long range. It’s like Sol throwing Gun Flames from afar, gets you nowhere fast; all you’re doing is trying to provoke a rush or attack from your opponent. **

Throwing out dolphins, first of all, provides lots of setups. May can run in after them, especially if FRCd, and either throw or combo. If you hold it for a brief second you can provide cover for an IAD arial attack. And why would it leave May wide open? You can still block when holding a dolphin, and you can release the dolphin at any time. Not to mention that if you hold the dolpin long enough to get two or more, you have even more cover for your rush.

I’m just trying to say that I think your opinion of May is lower than her actual potential. Take what you said here:

“Well-played Chipp will rush you and mixup constantly to make you block incorrectly and then do good damage. Well-played Testament knocks you down once and proceeds to pressure you for the rest of the round. Well-played Potemkin gets in your face and throws you or pounds on you constantly.”

In my opinion, I think that May can do all of these things. Just not quite as well. But hey, if you don’t want to think May is good I don’t blame you. It’s not a very popular opinion. I just don’t like it went people say that May is clearly the worst, not playable, or has nothing going for her. (Not saying you said this BOF, just a general statement.)

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Re: Re: You guys…

Okay, let me put it to you this way. Venom’s basic offensive routines and pressure setups involve mostly ball formations, FRC Stinger Aim, and Carcass Raid. You use various mixups to get an opening so you can knock down and threaten with damage or get a good combo going. His super is not crucial to any of this. Thus, you saying “without it he’d be the worst character in the game,” is highly erroneous. Yes, it’s great for okizeme and damage, but it’s not so crucial that he’d drop incredibly far in rank if he lost it. Does that sound better to you?

Did you ever think of why you never see that? Because it’s very, very difficult to out-zone and evade the guy. Potemkin has some of the best ranged pokes in the game, one of which is an excellent sweep that will set up his various mixups. Out-zoning him is going about the fight in a way that automatically puts you at disadvantage against him. He’s hard to shut down on offense because even if you get him on defense, his defense is so good that you often get knocked flat, putting him right back on offense. Yeah, he’s slow, but he’s not immobile; in fact, his Mega Fists and Hammerfall Break give him a good deal of mobility, which is part of why he’s so much more viable than he was in the previous game.

I think you’re both a.)overestimating May on offense, and b.)severely underestimating Testament. What does May have on offense? Her basic mixup game off of a knockdown is sweep, Dust, or throw. Her Dust, while relatively quick, is telegraphed and people will look out for it. All that leaves is sweep and throw. She also has a hard time getting the knockdown since her fastest low that knocks down (sweep) is so low-range. She has the 3K, but unless you RC it on block, you will get the shit beaten out of you. As stated before, most of her pokes have low priority, so she has a hard time getting close to agress.

Meanwhile, you have Testament, who has 2K and 6P, as well as throw. 6P is bar-none the fastest overhead in the game. Both of these attacks lead to a decent combo that ends in Grave Digger, doing decent damage and knocking down to set up for the next rush, and he has the best throw priority in the game. His pokes out-range May’s and out-prioritize them, and he also gets knockdowns far easier than she does with both sweeps and Grave Digger. On offense, he has the terrific Exe Beast FRC which not only allows him to start a rush, but can be used whenever his strings are blocked in order to reset his mixup game. His overall offensive potential is way higher than May’s in this respect since he can switch from defense to all-out offense from almost full-screen.

I have. What I mostly see in these matches is Koinuma playing incredibly conservative, throwing out the occasional poke when he gets in close, then IADing away and staying far away from the other player (if he gets a hit, he tries to push his offense). Yes, he is successful, but this is in no way any sort of domination or forcing his opponent to mess up. He’s just playing incredibly safe and hoping his opponent messes up so he can capitalize. Those matches reaffirmed why I don’t like May that much; the style of play required to be successful with her is both incredibly monotonous and incredibly taxing. The amount of work put in to win with her is leagues higher than any other character, aside from POSSIBLY Venom, and even then he’s way more successful than she is on a regular basis.

May’s basic problem is that she has no way of being threatening or forcing her opponent into a bad situation. She has to play safe and hope that they mess up so she can attack. Other characters may not have guaranteed stuff, but they can do things to force mixups and actually pressure their opponent into a bad situation, rather than waiting for it to fall into their lap.

Like I said, crap range. It’s not good on defense against any sort of ranged poke. The angle of it makes it poor anti-air, only for extremely deep jump-ins.

But she is in no way at a better position. She can only agress afterwards if she delays the release of the dolphin or FRCs it. If she delays, she can be punished.

It isn’t that hard to outrange. Only characters who can’t outrange it are probably Chipp, Anji (doesn’t matter since he can AG through it), Jam (can opt to parry), I-no, and Zappa. If you’re relying on 2S to get you through the fight, you will get zoned.

Most characters’ good pokes out speed it or out range it. Also, you get nothing from it unless you get right in their face (hard).

Then why on earth did you bring them up? If they’re not a major part of her game, don’t bother saying they’re good, do decent damage, etc.

Ok, first off, the range is BAD for a full connect. Sure, you can hit your opponent farther away, but you will end up getting jack damage for your time and effort. Using it for wakeup is OBVIOUS and will get you blocked (she is not totally safe afterwards, a quick normal like Sol’s s.K will nab her, leading to combo). Most characters don’t straight rush someone in the face, so using it for anti-rush is generally bad.

The innate issue is getting me in the position where I will just randomly throw out an attack for you to super. What situations are you going to use the move in? There’s the two obvious ones you stated for the other super that are pretty easy to see and dodge. What else? Randomly try to punish me at full screen? That’s pretty much an unnecessary waste of meter that will usually not get you anything. Also, you don’t get a free combo off the bounce unless it’s CH. You’re throwing away Tension on a guess; that’s not good.

Here’s the thing: Sol’s VV is essentially “free” (no Tension cost). The other thing is that if Sol whiffs say, a running VV, he is so hard to punish that any attempt to punish him usually results in getting another VV to the face.

If you choose to hold the dolphin, you aren’t covered by it coming out while May is coming out of animation, meaning quick moves like Sol’s Grand Viper and the like can punish you hard. If you’re far away, the dolphin is not going to cover you long enough for you to run in and mixup.

She has no way to get any of that offense started because she lacks specific tools that those characters have that allow them to be played in the way they are played. You talk about her potential, but a year from the game being out and she’s still considered low rank and doesn’t make showings in tournies. Shouldn’t take that long to find stuff with her, don’t you think?

I’ve looked at the character and the way she performs in competition, and all the evidence and results point to her being a step or two lower than the majority of the cast in the game. She’s not useless, but she has nothing truly threatening or powerful going for her to make her a true contender in tournaments. I don’t care about the popularity of opinions; popular US opinion is that Sol is grossly overpowered, but I really don’t see it at a competitive level, seeing as I actually have played the character for a long time and played people who know how to deal with him.

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Wow, all that other helpful conversation got nuked. Ah well.

Anyway, for Shin_Kensou or whatever his name is, come back when you want to have a more mature conversation rather than immediately resorting to name-calling and flaming before I even know who the heck you are. I don’t mind if you disagree with me as long as you can be an adult about it (like Scamp, for example). :wink:

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Did you ever think of why you never see that? Because it’s very, very difficult to out-zone and evade the guy. Potemkin has some of the best ranged pokes in the game, one of which is an excellent sweep that will set up his various mixups. Out-zoning him is going about the fight in a way that automatically puts you at disadvantage against him. He’s hard to shut down on offense because even if you get him on defense, his defense is so good that you often get knocked flat, putting him right back on offense. Yeah, he’s slow, but he’s not immobile; in fact, his Mega Fists and Hammerfall Break give him a good deal of mobility, which is part of why he’s so much more viable than he was in the previous game.

i havnt got to play the game much… but all this stuff here sounds about right to me…

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i c, well i must admit that u seem to act like the messiah of ggxx, however i realize that maybe i came on a lil harsh perhaps eh?

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Well, I certainly don’t intend to come off as “all-knowing”, but I do like to talk about the game; it’s one of the few games that I can play decently. But like I said, I don’t mind if people want to argue with my views, just as long as you can conduct yourself like a reasonable person. That’s what the forums are for, discussion.

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i understand wut ur saying fully, and thats completely fine wit me.

where r u from n e wayz? cali?

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North Carolina. :bluu:

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i thought so…:bluu:

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let’s all do it now…:bluu:

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this thread died lmao:D :lol: :lol:

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This thread died when a week worth of posts got ate by the forum crash :lol:

I wanted to reply to your post you made to me, but after the posts got erased it was pointless. I was guaranteed to misquote you about something and start more mess than what it was worth.

The main thing I do remember was you gave me a big lecture on how Testament was not the worst character in the game. It’s a shame we can’t go back and read my original post to you, because I agreed with you about Testament. You were preaching to the chior as far as Testament being a decent character. I only disagreed with you on I-no being the worst character in the game. I say it’s May.

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So that’s what happened to my tier.

178

dont listen to bof, he has sars.

179

and the her-PES!

180

i havent heard anything about may being the worst as of recent, so apparently i will still assume that its i-no.