And by scrubs I mean Eddie. I can’t beat eddie for the life of me. Saif is like the best GGXX player here and according to all sources, he’s a fuckin scrub. 
Venom takes way too much work to get a win compared to the other characters…but that doesn’t make him a horrible character…just a high maintenance character.:bluu:
Lol, yes it does. Is a high maintenance woman worth keeping? No…I want to break up with venom, but I can’t =<
I’m just glad to finally see a tier ranking that didn’t say “All the characters are playable except for May.”
Thank you, Chun-Li’s Pimp!
May is good!
Maybe I’m biased because I use May for fun…but I don’t think she’s bad at all. I think Zappa, Ino, Dizzy, Venom are all worse. May’s super tickles me pink.
Whoa whoa whoa, I-no Dizzy and Venom all worse than May? I’m afraid I will have to call BS on that one. Yeah, Venom is high-maintenance, but that doesn’t stop him from being a destructive offensive force. He just requires a little more work than others, but his mixup game off of a knockdown and his lockdowns are all too damn good.
I-no is a fucking offensive monster. Easy mixups after knockdown into simple, high-damage combos, unblockable setup off of her air super, or whatever you would like. Her stamina is good and she’s pretty quick. She also has good range on many of her pokes. She’s got two of the best supers in the game: they both are very combo-friendly and even when blocked, they set up another rush for her.
Dizzy does way too much damage with combos, plays equally well in close and afar. Her main weakness is that she has no wakeup outside of a super. Otherwise, she’s a very good character.
All of these characters, with the possible exception of Venom, get their damage much easier than May gets hers. They all have better offense than May and equal or better defense. How you get her being better than them is beyond me.
nobody is worse than may. except zappa.
ino has no unblockables. her airsuper can be blocked while ducking.
ino can deal 300+ damage from half super bar.
venom has an infnite
dizzy can deal 300+ damage from half super bar.
Do you even USE venom? It’s retarded how much maitenance he requires, not just ‘a little bit more work’. It’s a fucking LOT more work. I don’t really care, I’m up for the challenge. It’s not the point. My point is that May is better because she has simpler combos, bigger damage, better supers, etc. Her offensive stats aren’t up to par with venom or even I-no, but that doesn’t make her worse. Ironically, it’s the shitty chars that Venom has the easiest time with.
Basically, EVERY character has a solid rushdown game or at least a huge combo they can pull off…why don’t you name me a character than CAN’T do at least 50% with half a bar?
When it comes to playing defensively (cept Dizzy, but she’s free to okizeme until the cows come home), these characters are SERIOUSLY lacking, and you can’t ALWAYS be offensive. All it takes is a slip up with Venom or Ino and you’re on the defensive and in a horrible position, one that can very well cost you the match, not because you fuck up, but because of character limitations.
The tier gap between may and zappa/venom/ino/dizzy IS there, but it’s very small. I mean they ALL get raped by Eddie/millia, but vs each other I think May will come out on top.
…?: Do you USE venom also? His ‘INFINTE’ is very difficult, and if you can get more than 3 reps, you deserve the whopping 20% you get from it. Alot of characters can do 300+% from half a bar too, especially better characters. May can do just as much damage as the characters you mentioned can.
venom 6P has great priority.
ball(s) = good.
frc ball combo = good.
unblockable super- set up = good. (knockdown, super, force block direction, boom)
teleporto. abuseable sweep into combo
though admittadly, japanese agree venom is really hard to use.
hes one of those theoretically very good people, like axl.
may: no priority. damage is nice, but does nothing if you cant land a hit.
alot like slayer in a way. high dmg, not much in the way of rush-pressure,lockdown,or runaway, so its hard for slayer/may to land hits. but slayer has roll canceling (dash cancel to invincibilty) so he has more ways to run an offense than may.
Dash K to air super induces so much block stun that your opponent doesn’t have time to block. You land first, do a 2K and they can’t block it. Guard break. The dash K ensures that they block the super standing.
Simpler combos than who? I-no? Nope. Dizzy? Nope. Only simpler than Venom, and it doesn’t really matter there. Better supers? Dark Angel > all of May’s supers, period. I-no has the two best supers in the game, IMO. Dizzy can pull off a semi-unblockable with her fire-pillar super. Yeah, May does more damage than Venom, but it really makes no difference if she can’t lay a finger on her opponent (whereas Venom does not have this issue).
All of these characters have better anti-air than May, better priority in general, etc. Thus, better on defense. They can also play the range better than May. Dizzy and Venom have something to do when they aren’t in close. May just sort of farts around trying to scare you into getting close to her.
It strikes me as funny that you’re saying May is better than these characters on defense when May’s defense is so shitty.
Bottom line: Venom is hard to use, but most people still consider him to be mid tier at the very least. I-no floats between mid and high tier. Dizzy is the only character even close to low tier, and even THEN, she’s still better than May.
Right, and strider/doom > mvc2. See, the problem with theory fighter is alot of the time it’s not applicable in real matches, or if it IS, it’s usually so hard to do that it’s not worth it and you should just play Baiken. I’ve been playing/biting venom (tricks) since I first starting playing this. I have a pretty solid idea of what he can do from a knockdown. It’s very solid too, however…the room for error is so minimal that it makes him nearly impossible to use to his full potential. Even the japanese mess up and lose(daigo vs mozaiku for example). I know that he’s SUPOSED to be good, but I’ve lost waaay too many matches just because I messed up once and couldn’t get them off me. =<
W00t
Edit: Nevermind, stupid question.
Jump at a good Venom player and you will get CH 6P to the face, cancelled to a ball summon, which basically guarantees okizeme. Not what you want when fighting Venom.
They’re good for other reasons. Also, have you ever seen someone get hit by four balls? They lose almost half life. That’s pretty decent. But again, they are more important for setup and mind games, which is why they are good.
Can lead into his infinite or knockdown to okizeme if done correctly. Considering how the character works, it sounds pretty fucking good.
Is it that hard to time it correctly? Not at all. Null point.
Knockdown to ball setup, genius. Not exactly rocket science. Or you could just set up from distance or combo into a RDP+button, which has an actual hitbox.
Sweep, Stinger Aim, FRC, air combo. Guaranteed damage. You don’t seem to know as much as you claim.
That’s actually a bad parallel. Strider/Doom is good, but the difficulty behind it is not only execution, it’s keeping your opponent in the trap. So many people can run from Strider/Doom. You really can’t run from Venom. His only difficulty is execution, and even then it’s not as hard as you make it out to be.
Then maybe you should stop complaining about the character and not play him since you’re not up to the task. You know what the character requires of the player; if you can’t hack it, hey, don’t play him. Don’t use that as an excuse to rag on him and say that he sucks just because you’re unsuccessful with him.
Sigh…running from strider doom gets you no where, he just builds meter and waits for you to land. You can’t really run from strider or venom. The problem with strider doom is mainly 90% execution and 10% trap. Just like venom. His execution IS the most demanding in the game however, and if it’s not, I’d like to know who is.
Yea or maybe I should use Sol like you. -_- I don’t ACTUALLY think he sucks, my first post was sarcastic. I’m just saying when a character demands that much from the player, he’s not as good in actual game play as he appears on paper or as you see him in japanese tourney vids.
Please…the range isn’t THAT good. I’m pretty sure everything sol has beats that out. The only way that works is if they get careless and jump in deep with something slow.
Sigh…how is venom gonna set up 4 balls and have them all hit? They’d have to be a retard to get hit by that shit. Venom is all about his balls, I already said that, ‘they’re good…obviously’.
Yea, until you make a mistake. The problem again that I keep pointing is out, is the lack of RAW damage venom can do. I can knock you down all day, and since I’m not unblockable, what happens if YOU block everything, I mess up, or what have you…then it’s down hill from there. All that work for nothing when you can just mash dust and win.
It’s decent when used like that…oh unless they do ANY kind of wake up. It’s not like he can block coming out of teleport animation.
Not only do you lose ground/offense once you sweep xx DHM or an air combo, but you waste meter to do the damage sol can do by mashing or baiken can do with her 4hit wondercombo. Also, unless you’re turtling or crossing up(and planning the combo before you actually start the set up), you can’t just sweep into stinger aim FRC, because you don’t have enough time to charge.
Edit: I’m not attacking you personally, I just think it’s funny that someone who is obviously a sol user, tells people venom is good and worth the work when he, not only has no chance vs sol, but requires infinte more execution and strategy.
Johnny is incredibly demanding on execution. He has insane berserk kill-you-in-one-shot type combos, but they are hard as hell to do. You also have to know basically all of his offensive routines and be able to pull out some complicated string on the fly as if it was nothing. Other characters who are fairly demanding on execution would be Eddie, Chipp, and possibly Jam.
LOL. I’m not saying that you should follow the crowd, but if you’re going to pick up a hard character, you should realize that he’s demanding and put up with it, rather than whining about how it weakens him and how you don’t win matches because your character is “so hard”. Learn the character or drop him altogether.
What strikes me as odd is that even in actual match and tournament play, Venom fares far better than you give him credit for. May better than him? May is widely regarded as terrible, one of the worst characters in the game. Venom is hard, but for God’s sake, he’s not so hard that you’re fucked if you mess up against May of all people. He has enough raw advantages over her.
UPPER BODY INVINCIBILITY. Cripes, you mentioned that in your last post, yet YOU FORGOT ABOUT IT ALREADY. Amazing.
Then why the hell are you whining about the damage? ‘Yeah, they’re good but they don’t do damage.’ That sounds pretty negative for no reason.
Take 4 balls. Take the damage done by 4 of them, divide by 4 to get a reasonable idea of how much damage one does (account for scaling). That’s what I was getting at.
Who “mashes Dust and wins”? No one. Not Sol, not Baiken, no one.
An alternative if your offensive flow is broken is to back off and shoot at them. It’s not as good as his offense, but it sets his offense back up and shooting for a while will do some decent damage.
The idea is to mix up your game and get them thinking as to what you may or may not do. Scare them into not wanting to do a wakeup because they could have guessed wrong and then get smacked by a ball into a combo into a knockdown into ANOTHER setup, wash, rinse, repeat. If you do it rarely enough and in the right situations, there isn’t much they can do about it.
First off, charge times are short in GGXX. Very short. This is part of why Venom’s Carcass Raid loop/infinite works. If you know how to properly do an offensive charge, you will have plenty of time to get the SA off. Also, you wanted damage, so I gave you damage. It’s not awesome, but it’s better than most of his stuff. Alternative is 6HS to DP+HS or 6HS to ball formation. 6HS does a decent chunk on its own and sets up for a crossup guess when they rise.
Yeah, I play Sol. I also have taken a crack at practically everyone else in the game. I’m not as fluent with everyone as I am with Sol, but I know almost all of the main tricks of the trade in the game. I’ve seen good Venom players, and I admit that he takes a lot more work than some characters. However, I don’t think that hurts him so much that he deserves a place at the bottom of the rankings. In theory, he’s mad good. In practice, he’s above-average. Not shitty.
I could also go into a rant about how I personally think Sol takes more work than most people give him credit for, but I don’t feel like getting into another drawn-out argument over something that is really not worth debating.
The only problem with Strider & Doom is that you’re most of the time up against Fagneto, Shitinel, Sporm teams which are proven superior in MvC2. The matchups in GGXX aren’t that bad, y’know!
Then tailor your setup properly, you should always keep in mind that your opponent has a chance of blocking everything. If you do so, you are still safe enough to establish control again.
Mashing dust all day?! What do you know about Sol?!
Teleport? What are you talking about? He said nothing about teleporting. The only move he stated was the Duvis Curve [rdp+any].
If you don’t want to lose offense, do this instead: [sweep xx FRC Stinger Aim, f+HS xx ball]. When Venom plans to sweep, you have more than enough time to charge during jump forward, airdash, teleport. If you didn’t figure this out, you still have a long way to go.
I use Sol. He’s really not that godly like what a lot of ppl says, he has his share of problems, too. For crissakes, he’s mid-tier in high level of play compared to Venom which is marginally higher.
'nuff said.
Thing is that you will see Sol more often in tournament play and in higher spots because he is far easier to apply and gets good results. This is sort of what the guy is getting at. I just disagree with putting Venom below characters like May who borderline suck ass.
Actually it’s exactly what I’m getting at. I only posted that tier ranking because I was having a bad day with venom. I love him so…
Sporm? WTF…that doesn’t make sense to me, and mvc2 is all I play…BESIDES, IN THEORY FIGHTER STRIDER DOOM LOCKS DOWN THE ENTIRE ROUND…but no more marvel examples since it seems to confuse you guys.
Sigh, Sol is NOT godly. I NEVER said that…but as far as damage per execution, he’s way past quota. When you have them in the dust loop, you can literally MASH dust, I’ve done it.
Yea he’s invincible yet the move lacks the range to hit anyone. Sol has you in the corner, he can neutral jump and poke at you with s, d, whateva. It just needs a little more range. I mean hell, may’s is invincible too, AND does 50% stun on CH, BUT shitty range makes it pretty sorry…same thing here.
He might be incredibly demanding on execution, but here the thing. His game isn’t based on execution (venom) and when he hits you, you die (not venom). Eddie, possibly, but his set ups are unblockable, unlike Venom, who’s are just good. No comment for the other two.
You guys are taking this all too literally. Venom is alright, just end up bitching sometimes because of his his demanding execution. Since I’m white I automatically have shitty dexterity AND no competition. Gimme a break. >_<
Yeah, Venom’s a real pain in the neck at the start. But trust us, ownage is guaranteed in the end!
You have to actually get them in the Dust Loop first, though. Not as easy as some people make it out to be. Mashing Dust also isn’t exactly the best way to go about it. The combo is not that hard to do, but that doesn’t really correlate with “mash Dust and win”.
Meanwhile, you seem to forget about characters like Axl who have inanely simple combos that do chunks of life like it’s nothing. Then there’s Baiken and Jam, who both have very simple combos that do craploads of damage. Slayer and I-no as well; hell, even Bridget can do some ridiculous damage with really simple combos. Yeah, Sol does good damage, but I get tired of people saying shit like “he’s way too strong, too much damage,” and not taking other things into account like how often you’re actually gonna land his combos against someone who’s familiar with him.
Um, the range ain’t THAT shitty. So Sol can jump neutral and poke you like that, whoop-de-doo. You should usually at least be able to trade with his Slash, which generally leaves you in a better position.
Holy hell, Johnny’s game so IS based on execution. If you cannot execute, you CANNOT play Johnny, period. When he hits you, yeah, you die, but the sequence by which you die is hard enough to pull off that I think he’s up there with Venom when it comes to how demanding he is on execution.
They are unblockable, but people can and will reverse them if given the chance. There are also his non-unblockable setups for rush which are reasonably difficult.
I’ll give ya a break when you stop saying that he’s worse than May. Main reason I got involved was that I saw you posting May as being better than a handful of characters who all pretty much whip the living shit out of her. Fine if you get frustrated, but don’t go saying crap that’s just ridiculous.