GGXX:Accent Core Thread! [AMERICAN PS2 RELEASE, GO GO GO!]

Uhhhhhh wtf is wrong with people.

  1. Slayer has better and safer ground pokes than pretty much everybody not named Ky or Eddie (the shadow, not the main guy). All of these pokes either lead to knockdown (ie. his scary scary oki), him getting right up into your face (ie. his scary up close game) or 50-100% damage (ie. whoops you DIED).
  2. I’ll say it again because people keep forgetting this- not only are Slayer’s normals safe on block, they are advantage on block. Which means his moves go from high-priority-kill-you-on-CH moves to high-priority-kill-you-on-CH moves that set up CH for him. They also are advantage on hit which leads to 3S style hit-confirms into tons of damage.
    Let’s be real- Slayer has brutal frame traps and many of them just feed back into pressure anyhow. CH 5K leads to a lot of different ways to kill you- all of which can be confirmed. Same with CH c.S, or spaced out CH 2D.
  3. The best way to get out of most Slayer pressure is to jump back- but then you end up in the corner if that’s what you’re always doing, which is where Slayer is trying to push you anyhow. And you certainly can’t jump backwards there. Some characters (May) can FD jump straight up to get out sometimes.
  4. Slayer has brutal anti-airs. 5P creams a lot of airdashes, 2S beats a lot of stuff coming in from above and slightly in front of Slayer (and sometimes right on top, depending on the move), 6H preempts airdashes and jump outs and spaced well can catch people on the way down pretty well. All of those have combo options on hit, and huge combos on CH. 6P and BBU are more situational but lead to tons of damage. Generic GG anti-air of jump forward mash P works pretty well and leads to a knockdown air combo at the very least, though with a good eye you can sometimes turn it into a corner carry knockdown. Of course there’s airthrow. Also 2P and 5K against some characters.
    All that to say- if the best option to get out of Slayer pressure is jumping, and he can kill you for trying that…

Slayer doesn’t really “rely” on jump-ins, just some characters can’t do jack squat about Slayer coming down on top of them with jH so why not?

Slayer also has some absolutely crazy tech traps but people aren’t dumb enough to fall for the obvious ones anymore, and almost every Slayer combo ends in knockdown anyhow.

But yeah… it’s either crazy or stupid to say Slayer doesn’t “put the pressure on.” He isn’t a Jam or Ky type character who keeps you in this constant flux between blockstun and like 2-3 frames of not-blockstun. He’s a character who backs you into a wall and punches you in the face and then you die. FD to push him off you? He’s better at midrange than most characters anyhow. IB? He’s still safe. Anything else is a guess, which may or may not work- just like getting stuck in anybody else’s pressure, except Slayer does so much more damage than the rest of the cast.

If you don’t feel pressured by Slayer then maybe your local Slayer needs to learn some bigger combos ;(

And the reason you don’t see Slayer winning tournaments? Other than how almost every tournament you see on youtube is a team tournament, or how only a few people really make use of Slayer’s options while most people spam Dandy Steps and BBU and say Slayer is easy/scrubby?
Almost every AC Slayer you will ever see has some weaknesses in their fundamentals that you can hardly blame on Slayer. The problem with Slayer is that he makes it too easy to get away with that for a while, but then you hit a wall and you have to start using more than random BBU into crappy 170-200 damage combo to bail yourself out of the rut you’re in when people get used to fighting scrubby Slayer.
There’s the likes of Niga and Hase, then there’s everybody else.

Lack of pressure wasnt the right word to use.

With all that said im just looking for results, once again I understand slayer is a beast, his techs, and how he works. But when i take a look at results (aka tournament results) slayers for all there strength usually don’t make it to top 3-5 nowadays

Not saying he never does, but not like other who don’t have his “strengths” who place higher than him consistently.

and ima leave it at this…

shrug I probably would have won the last tournament I entered if my stick hadn’t malfunctioned in the grand finals ;(

That said, you missed my edit where I pretty much said that there aren’t enough quality Slayers yet to make that judgment. There’s really only a few players who have pushed the envelope on what Slayer can do; time will tell if it’s like Koichi with I-No (aka great offense but then wakeup TK S Chemical Love on wakeup = lose matches he shouldn’t) or like Ogawa with Eddie (aka rape everybody then get epilepsy).

The rest of us are stuck playing catchup as it were. Some Slayers are too stuck in certain patterns and have trouble converting situational stuff (actually that’s a problem with a lot of US GG players in general); some rely too much on gimmick offenses; some don’t defend well; some don’t use their pokes well; some need to learn their matchups better; most also need to learn bigger combos on top of their other faults.

so, what tournament results are you checking out?

(not being sarcastic btw, i’m just wondering.)

wow
Do you even play this game? I don’t know about you, but 230+ off a basic corner mixup isn’t really “barely any damage” in my mind. (for instance: [media=youtube]gcJuctx-7vg[/media])
Corner carry combos for 160-290 (depending on meter) off various pokes and simple counter-hit baits isn’t really “barely any damage.”

Maybe you live in the fantasy world where Johnny’s 180 damage combos are more powerful than Sol’s 180 damage combos, so Slayer’s tensionless 180 damage combos have to suck hardcore.

Though in reality you probably live in the same fantasy world as most of the US GG scene that thinks BBU is the only way for Slayer to big damage, never mind the actual facts.

ok…so he has a big damaging corner combo.

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yeah slayer is totally getting in and landing these huge corner combos in matches.

lol I like how you discount a few vids with a really good Slayer (probably one of the top) doing well against a set of good players, then you support your point with vids of one of the top 2 Potemkins in Japan against some decent no-name Slayers? Never mind that those Slayers DO get in and land big combos, as well as landing combos off random pokes?
Also never mind that those Slayers apparently have never heard of blocking or practicing their reversal backdashes, and they never guess right once in those videos or that those vids showcase FAB’s skill more than anything about the Slayer players at all?

I mean while we’re at it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3iq-9sz-c

Look I can post a random vid of Slayer beating Potemkin and not mention anything as to the quality of the players and I can pretend that the Potemkin player never did anything in that match, too!

Again, do you actually play this game or do you just theory fight, because you don’t sound like you’re very good at either of those when it comes to GG.

Your argument is “Slayer can’t get in on Potemkin” but the very vids you posted have Slayer getting in just fine against Potemkin. Your argument is “Slayer can’t hurt Potemkin all that much when he does land a hit” yet there’s countless examples of why you’re full of it in that regard. Vids come along of a Slayer player who is actually putting a lot of Slayer’s options to use in all matchups (guy does forward dash cancel K Dandy to clear Testament trees, did you even know that can be done?) and you immediately discount them because they don’t fit into your fantasy vision where Slayer can never “get in on” Testament or Potemkin… hope you don’t expect to be taken seriously.

So what exactly do you have left? As far as I can tell, you don’t understand the matchups at all yet you talk like you have some matchup Bible that means you get the tiers and nobody else does… yet you’ve never offered a single point as to why you think the way you do. It’s always the same “Slayer can’t get in on so and so, Slayer will never hit so and so, Slayer has this vague deficiency that everybody else has when we’re talking in vague mystery language,” but you never actually have any real gameplay input to offer.

With meter or CH, Slayer can push Potemkin from almost anywhere on the screen into the corner off several key moves (5K, 2K, 2D, 2H, 6P, jK, jH) as well as stuff like dodging moves into Pilebunker- the hard part is pulling that off against a Potemkin who doesn’t stick out unneccessary attacks, but then it’s just footsies.
In the corner, Slayer has several unthrowable mixups and backdash punishes- hard to punish Potemkin’s backdash but it’s very doable if you do moves that are active for long enough (timed 5H or 2D) and if you do your moves meaty, the Potemkin has to reversal his backdash and not everybody can hit that 1F timing every single time. Potemkin’s options are to block (which leaves Slayer at frame advantage if Potemkin guesses right, or leads to 50+% damage if he guesses wrong), backdash (Buster or 5K to combo if Slayer doesn’t account for it, otherwise it just resets the mixup or gets Potemkin combo’d), IB certain hits (Buster if Slayer doesn’t account for it, mixup situation otherwise), reversal shield super (frame advantage for Potemkin on block, combo on hit, neutral situation on whiff… unless Slayer has meter in which case it’s either a trade that favors Slayer in terms of damage + positioning, favors Potemkin in terms of stun and match flow… or + for Slayer in damage/positioning/match flow and + for Potemkin in stun).

Now is it easy for Slayer to get in Potemkin? No. Is it impossible? No. Slayer has to work about as hard as anybody else, really. Except he doesn’t actually have to get in on Potemkin, unlike several other characters.

Jesus Christ. Can I get some fucking cliffnotes here? Fuck it; I’ll make my own.

Slayer is a power hitter. He does lots of damage off of practically anything. His only weakness is that he needs to get in.

THE END

That’s the thing though… he doesn’t need to get in. He would love to get in, sure… but who wouldn’t? Even Axl likes starting combos up close to do more damage.
So yeah, Slayer would like to get in as much as any other character, except unlike any other character, Slayer does max range 5K and hit-confirms into a world of pain.

Which is where I think a lot of the confusion is stemming from- Slayer isn’t a “long range” fighter or a projectile fighter, so the assumption is that he has to be some up-close melee fighter when in reality he does that pretty well relative to the rest of the cast (though he does more damage in that situation), but where he really excels over the rest of the cast is midrange combat and doing huge damage at midrange.
Everything else, he’s average/above average with huge payoff, but nobody else does the kind of damage Slayer from as far out as Slayer can do his damage from… except I guess Eddie with his pet out in some situations.

But Cliff’s notes version: Slayer is an extremely technical power hitter with an excellent midrange game which makes up for his “weakness” to good zoning, which in reality is no worse than any other character in the game.

Slayer I think is more of a character that looks for a few openings [ch’s or whatever] to deal his massive damage, rather than a pure rushdown character [which is how everyone here plays him]. He’s scary when he’s in your face throwing 6k at you [which everyone seems to have neglected in mentioning], but he’s also equally scary when he’s not in that 6k range.

^ Agreed I think slayer should be play more like makoto really. I think thats why coming of 3s It was natural that I went toward him. And slayer is just scary…

Slayer has alot of techs and technicalities that when watching seems either random or exteremely basis. But like dem transformers theres “more than meets the eye”

I still agree with crimson 100% on the fact that not many people have master slayers or “unlocked his full potential.” Outside of a few (niga etc etc…)

Crimson you play slayer right? You got any matches… You seem to know your match ups in and out. ( I serious want to see them not trying mock you or nothing)

I also still feel that slayer shouldn’t be S based of the tournament results we see and the current level of slayers compared to everyone else. High A but not S, at the same time tiers don’t really work like that so I understand why he’s S.

I remember when i was playing slayer at 1st i was like this guy is really simple…Things took a big change quick. /me doesnt think that anymore

ok crimson disaster, go win all the majors with your fierce slayer knowledge. you have bested me. no one is on your level.

pot owns slayer, and if good japanese players (who you like to call no names, and are probably WORLDS better than you) get annihilated, what do you think even the good u.s. players chances are. US is not japan, stop comparing them like it would be so easy to get on jap level.

Potemkin doesn’t “OWN” Slayer. Its a hard ass fight because he has a really hard time getting in and staying in. That’s like saying Testament owns Order-Sol.

So what are the Slayer players here exactly complaing about?

It’s understandable that players get frustrated with their character’s shortcomings, but be realistic. You want your character (slayer in this case) to be ridiculously strong in nearly everything; how is that even fair?

He seems pretty amazing in every respect outside of pressure/rushdown and match control.

^ I’m def not complaining. I’ve said countless times slayer is a beast, I just find it amazing that everyone else is complaining or saying slayer is so great\ easy to play.

When he is

A) One of the most difficult characters to play high level

B)has one of the most fluxing learning curves. Going from brain numbingly easy to Crazy Difficult. Which in turn kinds of stunts grow of the character.

C) Doesn’t place high in tournaments (1st, 2nd, 3rd etc)

If i wanted to really scrub out i’d play pot… -_-

/me brings the pot hate.

take it easy FS…:looney:

That IS his signature! :rofl:

I have been a victim of Slayer’s combos off of his force break, it is NASTY! Slayer has always been a character i’ve had trouble fighting, now it is more so than ever.

Slayer gets a lot of damage on pot but I think the reason why it is so diffcult to beat him is because he cant do the stupid mixups that work on everyone else. He still gets a lot of damage off his pokes though and that is what they should foccus on doing to Pot instead of forcign their way in.

don’t get me wrong, i think slayer is very very good.

i just dont think he’s as good as potemkin eddie or testament, who i think are the real s tier.

the only true S class character I really see is eddie myself.