Maybe I’m missing something, but I think the view of “mixups” some people have here is a little limited. The most obvious ones you can see are of course something like “do this projectile, then do a low or a high, then the projectile hits,” yadda yadda yadda. But when people talk about ABA having no mixups that makes me scratch my head, unless we’re talking about “mixups” as strictly high/low guesses, it should be pretty obvious to see how a character who gets enormous frame advantage off of any blockstring, huge damage off of a throw and huge damage off of a counterhit can force the opponent to make decisions that are way in her favor. I could be missing something here, but I think people are breaking offense down into arbitrary components like “mixups” and “pressure” when sometimes they’re splitting hairs over what’s ultimately the same tactic.
If I’m mixing up between throws, counterhit baits, jumpout/backdash traps that all leave me with good offensive options on block (obviously for throws this isn’t possible), the opponent’s forced to make some kind of decision to get out, right? Why is that any different from high/low mixups?
I’m not saying all characters are equally good at it or anything, but when we talk about like Slayer having amazing mixups I start to wonder. Yeah he gets gigantic damage off of an overhead and a low, but the fact of the matter is most of his stuff is a big commitment on block and eventually he’s too far out to be a huge threat if he gets it wrong. Staying on top of you is just as important. Slayer’s cheap, but I’d rather be knocked down by him than by Millia, Dizzy, ABA, Eddie, Zappa with dog etc…
slayer isnt as good as everyone likes to say he is…seriously.
yes he does huge damage, but so does 1/2 the cast, and they probably have better pressure and easier and more practical ways to get in and actually land it.
This is how i feel, I rarely if ever see a slayer finish top 3 at tourneys consistently. Sure he punishes scrubs but does that make him S.
I think a year ago slayer was S but now he really shouldn’t be. Maybe im bias because i play slayer…
he reminds me of cable on marvel and Ike on smash bros. Both are good Both where clearly top when the game 1st came out. But as time goes on they kinda fall off…
Its getting in to land the damage thats the problem. His pressure isnt that great either. If he lacked either high damage or the ability to combo off just about anything slayer would blow badly.
What your missing is that Slayer, when played at the highest level (the definition of a character’s tier) doesn’t have glaring weaknesses. Yes he can have issues getting in on certain characters, but that’s mostly against characters that the entire cast has difficulty “getting in” on, because they have good zoning or spacing.
Slayer has everything you could ask for. His risk/reward for nearly every situation is phenominal. He has fantastic pokes and frame traps, nearly all his good options (and there are a lot of them) are ridiculously safe, and as previously mentioned if he touches you, it’s going to do fantastic damage (even by AC standards). Not to mention he has a 1 to 1 counter for almost any situation in the game.
Make no mistake, Slayer is absoultely an S class character. It’s just that he will hit a brickwall in the learning process extremely quickly. There is a reason he’s considered one of the most difficult characters to play in the game. Difficulty doesn’t make a character any worse in terms of their potential and tier rating.
One combo from hitting a backdash, tensionless, ch-less, with only one blocked 6hs for minor increased guard bar = 80%. Also look at the range that the first 5hs hit at. Most characters can’t get that much damage off of a poke that far, especially with no tension. Sure the guy could have bursted, but meh. Random poke = a lot of life, from far more places than other characters can work from.
ok so some really good slayer player does some crazy shit.
insert every other high mid character in the game.
they all have random youtube videos where they completely rape the other guy, it’s the way the game is. i still think one, potemkin is better than slayer, and two (just matchup wise alone, which determines tier) axl jam and baiken are just as good as slayer.
What? One non-CH 5Hs that leads to a 80% life combo? No tension? Just off of a backdash?
For Order-Sol to get that kind of damage he needs lvl.3 which more than likely won’t end in knockdown and give him mass tension at the same time…
Sol has to go for his strongest Sidewinder combo and he still won’t take 80% life with no tension consumption.
Jam needs tension for that kind of damage too. FB Puffballs. Not even Potemkin does that kind of damage without some sort of setup which requires a lot of tension. I’ve seen Jam take 80% off of Sol but that needed tension and jacked up guard guage. Also I’ve seen Jam take 70% life from Order-Sol but that needed a CH FB Puffball.
Slayer is random hit=DEATH. C’mon. A ID combo that does half-life? That’s the whole thing about Slayer. Players don’t fear his mixups… they fear his RANDOM HIT BIG DAMAGE COMBOS. Of course the rest of the match he used 50% here and there…
Never seen a Testament die that fast. The only characters I’ve ever seen kill that fast are: Jam/Axl/May.
My problem i guess is that I never see slayer win tournaments anymore more like talking about. He seems to do well in teams, but I never see him actually win a tournament. A for a character thats so great it shouldn’t be that hard of a feat.
Slayer is a beast but i don’t understand whats keeping him back from taking 1st 2nd and 3rd. Compared to the rest of the S class even the A are placing higher most the time.
But I’d have to agree with klaige, I think its because he goes from oh he’s so easy or free wins to Incredibly Difficult to master and place and win consistently with.
^exactly, and why is that? CONSISTENCY. everyone saying “slayer does huge damage off no meter random hits” it doesnt matter if youre in blockstun for 1/2 the match against eddie or test, or unable to actually even land those hits (and when you do, you do barely any damage) against pot.
I realize it’s semantics and everything but I don’t think 6H is “minor” guard gauge build, it’s probably close to the maximum you can really count on (i.e. not some trick shot setup that requires them to be in the corner, not FDing, in a specific matchup on a specific day of the week).
Also we’re talking about how he “only” hit him out of a backdash, but well… backdashing there was a bad call anyway. The big thing Slayer isn’t good at catching is like backwards jump/superjump, and that wouldn’t have caught Testament at that distance I’m pretty sure. That Testament just kinda repeatedly guessed wrong, it can happen to anyone but there’s another video of this guy versus a different Testament who keeps his gameplan together:
[media=youtube]ClvpZq5iXYE&NR=1[/media]
and this is what epsilon_ and TheDarkPhoenix are talking about. I still think Slayer is top tier and I really hate losing to him, but he really does have to work hard against the right kind of zoning.
BTW, since someone asked, that Slayer’s name is Hase.
1/2 the cast can’t do 75% combos off of a 25% meter.
Slayer doesn’t really have any weaknesses. He’s above average in pretty much everything except for the fact that he’s never in control. Slayer has to jump in almost always and rely on oki.
And thats a pretty huge thing in a game that control pressure rule. Its great to have big damage. But when it comes to putting the pressure on slayer lacks that outside his oki.
He’s a beastly character but, I just can’t and dont see him win tournaments any more like talking about.
I mean juggernaut can do massive damage off any move into head crush on marvel too… Damage isnt the end all be all.
