TC1 lk gekiro mk cross-up Oga or any bnb TC2 lk gekiro> mk cross-up Oga also works on:
- Honda (use lk Oga instead of mk Oga) - Yun (TC1 does NOT work, any combo into lk gekiro from TC2 does, it also works after super) - Yang (same as Yun) - Hakan (also works after super, TC1 does NOT work)
**- Oni **(everything works)
**- Abel **(only after TC1 lk gekiro, juggle as high as possible)
So in conclusion the characters it works on very easily are:
Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Cammy
Bison
Evil Ryu
Fei Long
Honda (lk oga)
Yun
Yang
Hakan
Oni
Ibuki
Slight modification needed but still useful:
Chunli (slight delay, she needs more time to stand)
Sakura (do it as fast as possible assuming she quickstands)
El Fuerte (only TC1 lk gekiro or after super, juggle high)
Rose (see El Fuerte)
Gouken (see El Fuerte)
Dudley (see El Fuerte)
Abel (only after TC1 lk gekiro, juggle high)
Zangief (only after TC1 lk gekiro)
I don’t hink it works on the other characters at all but this is good shit guys. The fact it is so fast makes it quite viable and for the characters it works on after our bnb combos it is a godsend imo.
Got it to work on Abel, Ibuki (on her TC2 combos into lk gekiro>mk oga crossup also work, easy!) and Zangief after doing TC1 combos into lk gekiro aswell, edited the list above. Also Viper can be crossed up after doing super>hk gekiro and then mk Oga, same for Ibuki.
You’re doing it against a training dummy set to quick rise, aren’t you? Use a recording for Gen and try blocking these yourself, a bunch don’t seem to work. I can get them to look like a crossup when the dummy’s neutral, that’s really easy, but when I try blocking them myself they’re not crossups.
I’ve used these kinds of setups before, and they’re much more complicated than they appear. For example, Akuma’s very difficult to get high enough, Honda blocks your setup, Yun makes it whiff, and Yang’s easy to crossup but he actually has to be kinda low during the Gekiro. All of them look like easy and consistent setups if you leave it to the dummy.
I actually tested them online against a few (Ryu, Ibuki, and Yun) and it works fine. Most of them (in the easy list) are not hard to perform at all with some practice, it all depends on how you perform the gekiro really. Like you said, sometimes you have to juggle them high or lower. I don’t get what you are saying though, if it works in training mode why wouldn’t for example the honda one not work online? If I understand you correctly, couldn’t you do the oga like you would after a forward throw instead ( :d::df::f:mk)?
EDIT: Just did it on Honda with the dummy performing s.lp s.lp TC2 lk gekiro> mk cross-up oga and I couldn’t block it (did not quickstand). I suspect like you said they would appear harder than they seem when practicing them on the dummy myself. I suppose the timing is really tight and there are some variables like how high/low you need to hit them with the gekiro. Still seems very useful though.
It is very character dependent, that’s true. Ryu/Ken are much much easier to crossup than Akuma, for example. Ibuki’s easy for one of the lower ones. I find Yun to be one of the most difficult characters to hit in the entire cast, so I’m not sure I trust anecdotes of people not blocking online. Walking wall dives aren’t very practical here though because the timing’s already tight.
Anyway, the training dummy can’t be trusted because it doesn’t hold a direction to block. The big difference is that when a human tries to block, proximity blocking kicks in - the character takes a blocking pose before anything even makes contact with them. This pose drastically alters their hurtbox, making basically every character shorter/taller and fatter/thinner in some way. Setups that look like they work against a neutral dummy often won’t work against a human, and setups that look like they WON’T work based on the dummy actually can work anyway because the block pose may alter their hurtbox in a good way.
These setups are absolutely useful, and they’re part of the reason I’m looking forward to the HK Gekiro causing a hard knock down. If you trust the dummy though, you’re going to get seemingly perfect setups that fail on you, and you won’t find good setups that only work thanks to the block pose.
It would appear indeed the hitboxes change a lot when using the dummy recorded. I found that in order for Gen to cross-up Yun you actually need to do lk oga instead of mk oga, same with Yang. I need to play around with this more.
If you’re testing a meaty cross-up on the training dummy, you can record the dummy walking backwards for a split second and it’ll imitate an opponent blocking backwards on their wakeup (you can probably do the same with the opp holding forward). I’ve used it for unblockables and it does work.
This might help some put the trust back in the training dummy :]
Revised labwork on Oga cross-up after a TC2 combo> LK gekiro:
After yeb said using the dummy does not yield accurate results due to it not blocking a direction I tested again but this time using the dummy recording TC2> lk gekiro> oga cross-up. With myself blocking the oga like one normally would. This list below is pretty much the definitive list of characters it works on very reliably and can easily be used in actual play since this test did take into account the changes hitboxes have when someone is in block proximity. All of these were performed midscreen and no quickstand,* I assume if your opponent quickstand these do not work* (whiff or block) but I really can’t be arsed to test all of that right now since this took a lot time. Regardless, a lot of people do not quickstand if they notice you like to use Oga so these are still extremely useful. Besides if you have decent reactions you can chance your oga direction if they do decide to quickstand. Mindgamezz lol.
**Fei long: **LK oga - juggle high gekiro
**Ryu: **MK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Ken: **MK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Bison: **LK oga - juggle high gekiro
**E.Ryu: **MK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Yang: **LK oga - juggle high gekiro
**Yun: **LK oga - juggle medium/high gekiro (tight timing) Rufus: MK oga - juggle low-med gekiro Unblockable if leg overlaps his face
**Akuma: **LK oga - juggle low gekiro Unblockable
**Cammy: **LK oga - juggle high gekiro Unblockable
**Guile: **MK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Honda: **LK oga - juggle medium gekiro
**Adon: **MK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Deejay: **MK oga - juggle high gekiro
**Chun-li: **LK oga - juggle low gekiro
**El Fuerte: **LK oga - juggle high gekiro
**Blanka: **LK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Gouken: **MK oga - juggle low gekiro
**Sakura: **LK oga - juggle high gekiro
**Rose: **MK oga - juggle medium/high gekiro (her head is slightly higher then Gens) Cody: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Guy: MK oga - juggle low gekiro Unblockable if leg overlaps his face Zangief: MK oga - juggle med-high gekiro Unblockable if hit at his waist T.Hawk: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Unblockable if hit at highest point Seth: MK oga - juggle high gekiro Viper: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Unblockable if hit at highest point Hakan: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Claw: MK oga - juggle med-high gekiro (his leg lines up with your kicking leg) Ibuki: LK oga - juggle low-med gekiro Unblockable if kicking foot overlaps her face Boxer: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Dudley: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Unblockable if done at highest point Makoto: LK oga - juggle med-high gekiro Unblockable if last kick hits her belt Oni: LK oga - juggle high gekiro Dan: LK oga - juggle high gekiro or MK Oga - juggle low gekiro Juri: MK oga - juggle low gekiro Unblockable if her face overlaps/is below your feet
Explaining high/low gekiro:
Gen’s LK Gekiro has 5 hits. What I used for the characters that have low behind their names is doing 3 regular hits like most people would do (pretty slightly above Gen or Gens waist) and then make your opponent drop a little bit lower and do the last 2 hits (slightly under Gen’s waist). I found this to be pretty easy with some practice. The characters that have high behind their name just signifies that you need to juggle them as high as possible, pretty easy with some practice aswell. Medium just means you have to be at about the same height with Gen’s and their body/face.
As long as you can play without relying on them, you are good. Everything should come as a spare of the moment type situation. It’s similar to people who are about to beat someone and stop then allow that person to gain momentum. AE is all about momentum compared to Vanilla and Super, both could be more defensive based. Now AE is a bit more rush down.
Completed the above list, it works very well for each of them listed assuming you do the gekiro right and your opponent does not quickstand (if he does just cancel the Oga when you hit the wallside). Phew that was a lot of work, stupid yeb coming in here with his crazy talk about hitboxes changing when blocking and such, damnit. The most surprising part is it even works on Blanka, you know, the character with the magic hitboxes!
EDIT: I was just messing around with doing the cross-up vs akuma and I noticed that I actually cannot block it either way (it does cross-up when I try to block it like you normally would). How come? It seems like an unblockable but why would it be.
First of all, nice job testing all the setups. Sorry I couldn’t help; I’m currently in school.
You put training dummy in auto block, and you do a cross-up dive kick setup: If you cross over their heads and land on the other side after they block your shit, it’s a cross-up setup (or an unblockable). If you land in front, it’s always a non cross-up. Good dive kick setups don’t give the opponent time to walk backward so result isn’t so different.
Putting high Gekiro is actually pretty hard cuz against some characters you can aim to only hit their feet with the last hit, but on others you cannot and is visually deceiving (Gouken and Claw comes to mind, though they’re not on your list)
Setups themselves will differ when the opponents quickstand, because the camera zooms out to full screen after you land on the ground. For example, against Ryu’s quickstand, high gekiro (as high as possible here, his feet is above your head) MK Oga works, but you sail over if he doesn’t quickstand and you time it on his wake-up. In this case, LK Oga works. Timing differs as well since opponents have 5 frames to quickstand and so if you do it too fast you’ll whiff. Time to wait for AE2012’s HK Gekiro.
Akuma setup might be trollable, but ones who know will prolly just quickstand.
The good thing about these is that after lk a gekiro we usually dash in or start our footsies game or whatever so it doesn’t hurt to try for the oga cross-up since you don’t lose much momentum even if they quickstand and you cancel the oga. I’ve been practising the gekiro heights and they don’t seem so bad after some practice, with some ahrder ones like vega and gouken which you mentioned (tI couldn’t get it to work on them). So apparently the akuma one is unblockable, that’s cool.
EDIT; It does work on Gouken, i didn’t test properly lol. Added him to the list.
EDIT2: cammy can’t block it in any direction either, good stuff. Going to check for more.
Something like forward throw -> crane cr.HK whiff -> LK Oga is unblockable on Viper as well, but you can NOT do it frame perfect otherwise she can block it as a cross-up. Pretty sure in order to make it uncrouchable you need to delay it for exactly 1 frame. I’m still testing setups.
Believe it or not, I usually go Oga on the opponent’s side after LK gekiro; if they quickstand, then they have to guess 3 things to do (reversal, walk back, walk forward/crouch), and if they don’t, free meter and a free wake-up jump-in. It’s just that characters on whom the cross-up setups don’t work (Claw, damn you), I can’t do that.
I’ll help with adding more character setup infos tmrw.
I did not know the f.throw> crane c.hk mk oga cross-up was unblockable for viper if you slight delay, very interesting stuff. Well I found it also works on sakura so I added her to the list, I removed Yun though. He is far to unreliable after further practice. His hitbox is pretty weird and even though I hit the gekiro as high as I possibly can (I think, hard to see) the crossup whiffs 8/10 times. Oh well.
Yeah doing an oga just for the mindgames is worth it, this setup basically adds another option to it for a large portion of the cast ^^
I said fuck it and decided to test stuffs in the library, going directly to work from school instead (lol)
If you whiff on the cross-up, you need to hit them lower, not higher.
Rose: MK Oga - juggle high-med gekiro (not too high, but Rose’s head is above yours)
Cody: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro
Guy: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro
Zangief: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro (yea unbelievable)
T.Hawk: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro (unblockable if you juggle him very high, the window is pretty big)
Seth: MK Oga - juggle high gekiro
Viper: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro (unblockable if you juggle her at the highest point, visually deceiving as her boots will still be below your kicking leg)
Hakan: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro (can go up to med-high)
Ibuki: LK Oga - juggle low-med gekiro (unblockable if your kicking foot’s knee overlaps with the lower part of her face)
Claw: MK Oga - juggle med-high gekiro (his leg lines up with your kicking leg)
Boxer: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro
Dudley: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro (unblockable if you do it as high as possible)
Makoto: LK Oga - juggle med-high gekiro (unblockable if your finishing kick kicks right at her belt)
Oni: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro
Dan: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro OR MK Oga - juggle low gekiro
Juri: LK Oga - juggle high gekiro
Fuck Abel and Dhalsim since it’s hard to do beyond the point of impracticality. Screw Sagat, only dropping gekiro and going for HK Oga works on him.
Gen is immune to it.
The “unblockables’” difficulty of blocking/dodging will depend on your Oga’s timing.
Are you using gen as the dummy and using rose to block the cross-up yourself? Because it doesn’t work for me, she just blocks the MK oga. You’re right sbout Yun, he needs to be slightly higher than gen but not all the way up.
