Gen is primarily a footsie/poke based character, so a good fundamental footsie and poke game is inevitable to learn if you want to have success with Gen (and with all characters to an extend obviously).
First of all: if you haven’t already read the Maj’s footsies handbook on general footsie tips and tactics that apply to every character here,
Gen has a lot of unique attacks and a good set of normals that can be used for all kinds of little small, but effective tactics. The goal of this thread is to post as many small footsie/zoning based tips as possible.
I have compiled some that I use frequently, and have proven effective to my game. Wether you are new to Gen or not I think these will help you out and develop some interesting mindgames and solid Gen specific tactics. These are just random bits of information that I’ve constructed into segments. English is not my primary language so excuse any grammar mistakes etc.
Element 01: Gen’s cross up crane j.mk is quite possibly one of the best crossup kicks in the game. However, advanced opponents might block it. Instead of doing j.mk> c.lk (which leaves you -7 frames on block, thus punishable) one should use j.mk>s.lp>c.lk>(mantis c.hp or hk). What this does is basically hitconfirm the c.lk. If your opponent block simply backdash or block if you have conditioned him to dp you or something and punsih accordingly. To mix things up I sometimes do j.mk and throw immidiatly, or j.mk and do s.lp>s.lk. This pushes them slightly away from you just outside their reversal zone, so they can’t actually shoryuken or throw you since you have enough time to block. And my favorite: j.mk and simply dash away. This is great for baiting grapplers into doing their ultra as they would expect c.lk or some variation on that.
Element 02: Gen’s dash is very good, so use it alot. In this match I recorded you can see me dashing quite alot to evade this Zangief’s jumpin crossup that they love to use. I simply dash forward staying out of their reach: [media=youtube]0L5wB01fKSU[/media]
At 0:29 I evade his jump in crossup. It’s simple but very effective. As a rule of thumb I do a lot of backdashing especially against grapplers due to baiting their ultra with it. I do this at 1:03 by doing a random move (c.hk) baiting the jump-in and quickly backdash before he lands. Interestingly enough, dashing forward at an unexpected time and simply throwing someone works wonders at times. Most people don’t expect such a dangerous and risky move thus the element of surprise favors you.
There are many uses for dashing, and it should be used alot (though watch out, I got dash-happy against a ryu and he did his super as I backdashed away from him…).
**Element 03: **The Gekiro kick is a decent tool. If you should however find that your Gekiro is blocked, wait untill the very last possible moment and do a 2nd kick before returning to the ground. Many (even advanced) players do not know this and it messes up their timing completely sometimes even whiffing their throw or normal attack. allowing you to safely return to the ground to backdash/throw/whatever. Also after doing an Oga or roll and they are blocked it sometimes helps to do a Gekiro immidatly afterwards as a lot of the time your opponent will try to attack you after those moves.
Element 04: Sometimes the easiest way is the best way. We Gen players being the technical connoisseurs that we are, sometimes overthink things. Sure comboing into your super is nice, but you can combo into gens super off alot of his normals mantis normals (mk, c.mk, hell s.hp even). Sometimes keeping it basic is the way to go, especially against opponents that have a strong reversal, thus eing hard for Gen to doing big jump-in combos on. Winning a game on pokes is just as skillfull as doing a big combo.
Element 05: Gen’s Oga is an amazing tool that sets up his super/ultra, Gekiro, and resets. However it has decent use as a mindgame tool due to the ability to ‘feint’ your Oga. here is an example of me in a match against a Sagat player: [media=youtube]6Y6M8qj9g9I[/media]
At 1:42 at the start of the round I do an Oga feint after conditioning him to expect a normal Oga all the time in the 2nd round. Even though I could not punish him, it still creates a sense of awareness in my opponent. He had not seen this before during the whole match and in the 2nd round he basically owned me because I Oga’d too much. I should’ve done an Oga close kick, which would allow me to be closer to him when he whiffed his Tiger Uppercut and punish it.
Credit to Street11
I found another mindgame tool that probably wasn’t mentioned here: Crane j.MK (hold down as soon as you jump) -> c.LK xx LK Oga (needs to be canceled late if you didn’t hold down fast enough).
If you hit j.MK, then you do w/e you want after c.LK. If the opponent blocks j.MK, you cancel into Oga after c.LK. In this case, j.MK -> c.LK part is used as hit confirm.
If the opponent gets reversal out, then you can either hit with Oga depending on which reversal it is (eg. SRK) or simply walk up and sweep after whiffing a near kick follow-up. If he/she doesn’t do anything or if you actually hit them with c.LK part, then it’s an extra meter gain for you unless the opponent is expecting it. Use sparingly.
Element 06: When doing a reset one should watch out to not become to repetitive. For example, If you jab> crossunder>hp>Gekiro. The next time your opponent might back dash or punish your hp. In order to mix things up a little bit you can all sorts of things with a reset. Like crossunder and throw, or crossunder and backdash/block if you feel a reversal is coming. In the same video of me playing against Sagat you can see me doing a reset hp Gekiro at 0:15, and then do the same reset except doing a throw expecting him to block at 0:23 (very nice tech throw by him though, did not expect that!).
**Element 07: **Few people actually know much about Gen, so abuse that. Changing stances provides different walkspeeds and jump arcs, mess up their timing by sometimes jumping in with one stance and sometimes with the other. Being dynamic is also good, few matchups aside. Move around alot, change stances in the air (though it will go into effect when you land, your opponent probably won’t see that), or change stances a few times while moving (causes Gen to stutter, making it hard to see for your opponent which stance you’re in). An example would be after scoring a knockdown: walk back and do crane j.mk, if spaced correctly you can choose if it’s a crossup or not and mess up opponents timing by not walking back the next time.
I’ll walk back and forth for a moment before I do anything. Stepping forward and crane j.mk crossup is an obvious choice to put you at maximum range, but moving back and crane j.mk is harder to read, and if you know your range really well you should be able to know when you’ll crossup and when you won’t.My favorite tricks with this are to walk forward and crossup with MANTIS j.mk into a nice juicy combo after a knockdown, or (depending on the character, NEVER try this on someone with a dp or similar wakeup anti-air) walk back and jump in with crane hk. Many people have been conditioned by Ryus to block jump-ins high then immediately block low, but with the extra hit to block high, Gen can often throw a wrench into this habit with the double hitting j.hk. (Credit to shadowXSnake)
Element 08: Gen has a very fast walkspeed, which depending on stance also differs. Instead of looking for an opening in your opponent to jump in sometimes it helps to just walk/jump in right at the starts of the match. Even when it fails it sends a message: you’re not afraid to take the initiative. This contradicts with the (most) opponents expectations as Gen is a low stamina character. Sometimes taking a big risk and taking the flow of the match in your own hands is needed to achieve victory.
An example: you face a Ryu who has excellent spacing and keeps you under pressure with c.mk>hadouken while maintaining a safe distance after everything he does. Instead of waiting for an oppertunity, simply do something that does not neccessarily is beneficial for you. The next time Ryu does c.mk>hadouken, after he hits you (or you block it) do a lp roll. This is just a random example of something completely not logical and thus probably not expected. Even if the Ryu manages to reversal it on reaction he will still think ‘what the hell that was random’. Exceeding expectations and conformistic combos (every decent player knows Gen needs to jump in to do decent damage) changes the way your opponent will play you. Obviously this is a totally random scenario I’ve used for an example and there could be many thousands of situations that can be named.
Element 09: Gen’s roll is a has a pretty long startup and long charge time, yet it has some interesting uses. First of all his most damaging (punish) combo includes crane j.hk> c.mp> hp roll. But that is not all. His roll has several other interesting uses that I have used alot in the past.
One of them is a ‘frame trap’ by which I mean doing (for example) a crane c.lp and after that immidiatly c.mp>roll. It help puts some pressure on your opponent and if done fast enough it can definately surprise your opponent. It has also been recently discovered (credits to HNIC Mike) that you can do (M)cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.lp, © cr.lk, (M) cr.hk and (M)cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.lp, © cr.mpxxxFP roll by buffering your stance change while doing the second c.lk! Something else that I do sometimes is crane j.mk>c.lk> c.lp wait a few moment for him to reset and immidiately do (can also do others, timing varies obviously) lp roll. If you’re feeling lucky you can also do crane j.mk> c.lk> c.lp> mp roll. If done correctly you will go under opponent. be wary he recovers slightly faster so the element of surprise has to be there (not recommended for characters with a strong reversal such as a dp). Nontheless it allows you to attempt to throw, or quickly switch to mantis for (EX)Gekiro, do a normal attack etc.
Another decent frame trap is doing mantis s.mp> mantis s.mp, this works especially well in if you have your opponent in the corner and he has no shoryuken or easy way out (i.e. Bison using EX pc). It puts you at about +3 frame advantage, and if the second one hits you can combo into mk hands. Hell, you can even repeatedly do it as long as your opponent has no easy way out, and you know what beats it in that certain matchup. Useful stuff.
Oga cross-up spreadsheet
This includes most, if not all, the Oga cross-ups you can do and how to do them on who. He has even included the timing to do them. I feel like Oga cross-ups are a major part of Gens game against skilled opponents in Super, and if you do them properly your opponent won’t know what happened unless he has godlike reactions and also knows all of Gens cross-up Oga setups. Yeah, highly unlikely!
(added 9-11-2010) Street11 has updated the spreadsheet with alot of new cross-ups, download the file here!:
(added 27-11-2010) Japanese Gen player Thehoigek has created a video with oga cross-ups that can be done from a forward throw, walking a little bit forward, and doing lk oga:
In order to walk forward (or backwards) while retaining your charge, hold the stick in :df: motion and slowly roll it to :uf: to get the Oga. If done correctly Gen will walk for a very short time and then immidiately go into Oga.
'Feint Crane j.mk’
lolwut? Yes, basically jump in (preferably on knockdown) and do j.mk earlier then you’d do when it hits, if you do it correctly (assuming you cross-up jump) his leg will be almost in your opponent but the active hitbox has already weared off. This allowed me to mindfuck my opponents (who were no scrubs by a long stretch) with feint j.mk>throw or feint j.mk> (mantis)c.lk >clp>s.mp>gekiro or just do a regular cross up every once in awhile with actual j.mk. It’s so simple I can’t believe I never did that in the enitre duration of sf4 and ssf4! Warning though, doing this against a srk character can result in a srk which will trade like 90% of the time you try this, which in ryu’s case = super/ultra afterwards So be wary of that. Conditioning your opponent and all that jazz…
Using mantis super LP version start-up invincibility
As most of you will know the LP version of Mantis super has invincibility frames allowing to travel through certain projectiles (while standing reasonably close to your opponent, since the range of the lp version isn’t great). It can be used from a maximum of 2 (and a half) tiles distance in training mode, otherwise the lp super will stop before reaching the opponent. I feel like not many people know/use this cool little advantage. Although it is nothing gamebreaking, so I figured I’ll post it in the shennanigans thread
I’ve made a list of all the projectiles (including possible supers+ultras) the LP version can travel through aswell as some good uses for it. You have to be very close to the opponents projectile for it to work aswell, as the invincibility frames are not too long. Everything was tested with a 2 tile distance in training mode unless said otherwise.
**Sagat: **U2 on reaction. Low tiger shots (all versions).
Ryu: U1 on reaction. His super. Hadoukens (all versions).
Guile: U2 on reaction. (does not work on sonic booms, Guile recovers too fast)
Dhalsim: U1 but only on startup, the projectile is too big htibox-wise to fully pass through. Yoga flames have hard timing.
Ken: Hadouken on reaction (all versions).
Chun-li: U2 only on start-up (tested 2 tiles distance). Kikouken (all versions).
Deejay: Air slasher (except EX version) on reaction (hard timing, have to be close than 2 tiles…)
Gouken: U2 on reaction (have to slightly closer than 2 tiles). Hadouken (lp + Ex version are the easiest, others you need to be closer.)
Sakura: U2 on reaction (horizontal version). Hadouken (all versions).
Rose: Soul Spark (all versions).
Seth: Sonic boom on reaction (except EX version).
Cool resets into Ultra for awesome damage:
If it works you’ll awesome damage. Very hard to pull off though and I’m not sure if the timing differs for certain characters and such. It has been proven useful hwoever by players like Redwolfx using it in the heat of battle.
Super cross ups on wake up
provided by street11
Forward Grab -> 1xForward Dash -> LK Gekiro whiff -> LP super
Forward Grab -> Crane Forward Jump HP (change stance here) -> Crane c.LK whiff (thanks to stance glitch) -> MP super
Forward Grab -> Mantis Forward Empty Jump -> s.MK whiff -> HP super
Boxer, whiffs if he doesn’t input a direction
Forward Grab -> 1xForward Dash -> Mantis Neutral Empty Jump -> HP super
Forward Grab -> 1xForward Dash -> HK Gekiro whiff -> MP super
Everyone else, Guy can reversal U2 you, Gief can reversal U1 you.
Crane c.mk projectile dodging chart
Gen's Crane c.MK hitbox seems better in SSF4. In fact, he can dodge several projectiles with decent recovery frames. In close combat there are several other/better options, but it gives Gen another option he can work with when fighting characters with projectiles.
I only took into account the projectiles that travel above the ground and can hit Gen when he's crouching. That's why this excludes Gouken's mp/hp Gohadoken and Juri's Fuhajin. Just to name two.
Akuma / Gouki
lp Gohadoken Yes
mp Gohadoken Yes
hp Gohadoken Yes
lp Shakunetsu Hadoken Yes
mp Shakunetsu Hadoken Yes
hp Shakunetsu Hadoken Yes
lp Zanku Hadoken No
mp Zanku Hadoken Yes (limited use)
hp Zanku Hadoken Yes (limited use)
lp Kikoken No
mp Kikoken No
hp Kikoken No
EX Kikoken No
lp Bad Stone Yes (early and close to Cody)
mp Bad Stone Yes (early and close to Cody)
hp Bad Stone Yes
EX Bad Stone Yes (early)
lp Gadoken Yes
mp Gadoken Yes
hp Gadoken Yes
EX Gadoken Yes
Haoh Gadoken Yes
lp Air Slasher Yes (when standing)
mp Air Slasher Yes
hp Air Slasher Yes
EX Air Slasher Yes (when standing)
lp Yoga Fire Yes
mp Yoga Fire Yes
hp Yoga Fire Yes
EX Yoga Fire Yes
Yoga Inferno No
Yoga Catastrophe No
lp Gohadoken Yes (charge gives same results)
EX Gohadoken Yes (charge gives same results)
Denjin Hadoken Yes (charge gives same results)
lp Sonic Boom Yes (when standing)
mp Sonic Boom Yes
hp Sonic Boom Yes
EX Sonic Boom Yes
Sonic Hurricane No
lp Hadoken Yes
mp Hadoken Yes
hp Hadoken Yes
EX Hadoken Yes
lp Soul Spark Yes (when standing)
mp Soul Spark Yes
hp Soul Spark Yes
EX Soul Spark Yes
Aura Soul Spark Yes
lp Hadoken Yes
mp Hadoken Yes
hp Hadoken Yes
EX Hadoken Yes
Shinku Hadoken Yes
Metsu Hadoken No
lk Low Tiger Shot No
mk Low Tiger Shot No
hk Low Tiger Shot No
EX Low Tiger Shot No
Tiger Cannon Yes
lp Hadoken No
mp Hadoken No
hp Hadoken No
EX Hadoken No
Shinku Hadoken No
lp Sonic Boom Yes
mp Sonic Boom Yes
hp Sonic Boom Yes
EX Sonic Boom Yes (when standing)
Early: requires a good read of the projectile being used.
Close: whiff c.MK less than ½ tile away from the opponent, or hit during the projectile animation.
When standing: Immediately execute c.MK from a standing state, so regular crouching state is avoided and Gen's hitbox won't expand.
Limited Use: You're better off not using the move at all, because of better options (focus, dash, crane walk-up, pokes).
- FADC is possible after c.MK on hit/block.
- Has decent priority/active frames and beats moves like Rose/Deejay's slide and Guile's f.FP with considerable startup frames.
Safe jump Super/Ultra option-selects
For those who don’t get this, after a forward throw you can dash forward twice and neutral jump in crane or mantis. Some characters get hit by both setups, some get hit by one, and some get hit by none. The other setup involves a forward throw, a crane normal for timing (KKK s.hk, KKK c.hk, and KKK c.mk in one case), and then a diagonal jump into them with PPP or KKK j.hp or j.mk (in case you go over them). These jumps will be safe; reversals cannot hit Gen. Knowing this, I tried to discover setups that beat all or almost all of their reversal options. In the case of Juri or Chun-li (without super), for example, you should always go for the safe jump after a forward throw and try to option-select your super/ultra. Worst-case they block the safe jump and you save your meter and continue pressuring them while they’re in blockstun. Best-case they mash out a backdash or reversal and you clobber them.
Some interesting notes:
Balrog : OS CRANE U1 beats backdash (corner only) and all headbutts
Chun-li: OS MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats ex sbk and backdash. If she has super you cannot safe jump her
C. Viper: OS LP/MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats everything except ex burn kick. OS HK SUPER AND OS CRANE U1 IN CORNER catch everything except ex seismo’s (if U1 out of corner will not catch backdashes)
Honda: OS LP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats backdashes and all headbutts. Misses buttslams. OS CRANE U1 in corner beats headbutts, backdash, and ex buttslam
Hakan: OS MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beat ex oil slide and backdash. He can beat safe jumps with U2 and ex command grab
Juri: OS MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats everything she has
Makoto: OS LP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beat ex oroshi and backdash. If she has ex meter, she cannot be safe jumped however (ex throw). However, you’ll never get to blow super or ultra in this case so if you’re safe-jumping her when she has meter, you’d might as well try the OS and see if she doesn’t throw you first
Rose: OS LP SUPER beats ex soul spiral, ex soul throw, and backdash. If she has Ultra2 you cannot safe jump her
Rufus: OS CRANE U1 beats backdash and ex messiah. doesn’t catch ex snakestrike, but who wakes up with that anyway?
Sakura: OS LP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats backdash and ex uppercut (you can’t safe jump with forward throw double dash forward neutral PPP j.hp and land this OS because her ex shoryuken will go through you…must forward throw then KKK s.hk PPP j.hp/mk). If she’s in corner then OS CRANE U1 beats ex uppercut and backdash as well