70/20/10 at major events with over 5K in the pot is the biggest travesty in the fighting game scene.
It doesn’t make any kind of sense. Might as well make it winner take all.
looks gay
umm no I never said that actually in other words holding an open qualifier takes too much time and effort to do and theres a good chance that the best picks wont be on the team track record is the best way to do so
in a game like SF4 where everything is a match up coin flip random shit can happen its not the best option for creating the best team like I said track record is
one match qualifiers qualifiers doesnt mean anything especially an open one even justin wong has a chance of not qualifying what then? hes obviously not that good?
bottom line is the only way to garentee the best players would be to have a big ass round robin FT5 and thats not gonna happen sooo picking it is still the best option
Not everyone agrees with this thinking,
Pretty much all majors have 70/20/10 including EVO.
Only tourneys I am used to seeing with a different split is the GG/BB and Smash communities.
I have spoken with a lot of players coming down for this including folks working their ways into top 16 top 8 and most agree 70/20/10 is quite fair…
if, the bulk of the players PM me or Demarcus stating they would prefer a different standard, we would make sure we have a realistic majority of players and make adjustments.
Please make sure your comments and feedback are backed by realistic information
renegade…
I would prefer people coming in here to post, do so with purpose.
Please…
I agree that a 70/20/10 at a major event is small-time compared to other genres. Me and Therapist were talking about this at my last tournament that Counter-Strike tournaments are usually $50 per person to enter. However, unless this scene wants to start forking over major cash like they do in other gaming genres, then I think 70/20/10 will guarantee the best possible payout to anyone and make it worthwhile.
Realistic information?
The entire first post is: POT MONEY! POT MONEY! GUARANTEED MONEY! MONEY! MONEY! PRIZES!
The point of doing that is to draw players, right? How many players have a shot at 1st place?
Five? Maybe Ten?
Of those five to ten players… which would say this sentence:
“You know, I was thinking about going to that Orlando tournament when it was 3500 for 1st guaranteed… but They lowered it to 3000, or 2800, so fuck that noise, it’s not worth my time.”
That’s right… zero would say that.
Meanwhile, offering prizes out to top 8 could entice more players to come, because if you’re pretty confident you could place top 8, your trip could be partly subsidized.
51.25/25/10/5/2.5/2.5/1.25/1.25
Which in a 5000 pot is:
1st 2562.5
2nd 1250
3rd 500
4th 250
5th 125
5th 125
7th 62.5
7th 62.5
That’s still a way top heavy pot, and much more top heavy than any other comparable event… Chess, Golf, Poker, Starcraft Leagues, tennis.
Obviously, when events are smaller and entry fee funded, expanding the pot payouts isn’t in the cards…
But with sponsored guaranteed pots over 5K$ it’s easy to do and is a good direction to move in.
Also, for you poker players, it makes the tournament a better ROI for most players.
While a part of me wants to agree with you, we have explored this concept already and we looked at a lot of players for their input and almost 99% of the time we got 70/20/10 for these titles… also, I am not sure where you see us lowering any of the numbers…the posts have been stated and thats what they are staying at, nothing has gone down.
also if I believe in predestination, there would never be a chance for anyone anywhere to win anything ever, only the few destined will win…
I love Justin, he is a friend of mine and I work with Empire on a lot of projects but he lost to Marn at ActiveGamerS…
I don’t believe anything is set in stone, I believe it is up for the taking and if you want that top 3 spot you have to work for it.
While I would love to pay out personally to Top 16 (because you and I believe in the same concept to draw in more players) I am not looking at this only to make money or bring more players…its not my motivation.
The community is accustomed to 70/20/10 and I am more then happy to have a ridiculous payout to the #1 spot…
its not about appeasing someone because he is in the 16 spot or the 8th spot…
Its about what is consistent.
I know you mean well with your comment Renegade, I appreciate your opinion, but this is something we have already decided over a year ago from speaking to countless players.
I am more for the hype and the event is not just about these tournaments, its a huge part yes, but there is a real focus for the rest of the community to get involved in other aspects of the show, from the Expositions to the Exhibitions and the massive concerts. I get what your saying, but for the most part all the Majors do 70/20/10 its the accepted and most reasonable payout method.
I have shifted this to make sure Smash which is used to different payout scenarios get their format.
Just make sure you understand my comment and reply to you is based on what appears to be an insult from you to us because I like to payout big to the winners of an event.
Otherwise we are cool brotha, and definitely offer your advice, just understand it doesn’t mean we will use it - but we take all things into consideration.
I actually agree with paying top8 when the pot is 5000+. Evo did it when they had toyota sponsorship.
I wasn’t saying you were lowering the payout at all. I was saying a hypothetical in which if you did lower it, no top player is gonna say: “i’m skipping this b/c it’s only 2500$”
I’m not insulting you or your event, I protested EVO’s 70/20/10 as well, since it was the biggest SF tourney in evo history and only 3 people got paid.
This is not personal motivation, I’m not gonna even get top 8 at this events. I’m a tourney organizer, and I’m just voicing what I think is fair.
Something my Vice Chair and my Programming Vice and I have talked about in this regard (especially with other conventions we are helping legitimize, Like MaGFest and Katsucon among others) is running other tourneys to match it…
For example, running another say SSFIV singles tourney (get another sponsor to put up a solid bonus) and then run a separate tourney paying the same scenario 70/20/10 but now the top 16 from the earlier tournament would not be able to compete in this.
This would allow competitors to again gain a chance at winning another spot at money. the top 16 are not allowed in this tournament, in a perfectly destined scenario the next set of players would normally place in the top 16 for this next tourney but I don’t think that is the case.
Or take the same scenario and payout top 8 but not that scenario you put up would be more of a
40/20/15/10/10/5/2.5/2.5
Say another $2000 bonus pot (we can call this a Low Tier Tourney if the negative connotation is not too insulting)
say we get 100 players for this ladder
$1000+$2000 = 3000
1st = 1200
2nd = 600
3rd = 450
4th = 300
5th = 300
6th = 150
7th = 75
8th = 75
but again I am not too happy with that payout…I would want to make it higher…but this is all academic and potentially to a better bonus pot.
The point would be to address the ever growing concept of who is ever eligible at events of this nature.
I like creating scenarios that allow everyone to show possibilities, but I am realistic and I like giving the best their due…
Renegade I would say pop SweetJohnnyCage a message and I would like to see if you guys can come up with a “Low Tier” (working title) scenario that addresses this particular problem.
We can run this particular tournament on Sunday. this way we leave our original concept intact, I love adapting and working toward a solution but I don’t like to arbitrarily make changes, I like giving people what they expect and more…
Thanks guys
Manny - If you are running a bracket properly, you will not have a 6th or 8th place. You will have a tie for 5th and 7th in your top 8, and there is no need to separate them. Double Elimination is really only perfectly accurate for the best 2 players that day anyway, the rest can be a real crap shoot.
You would have to have them compete for their specific spot, which is also one of the reasons I think most tourneys pass on the whole scenario past Top 5 because of the extra matches it takes to determine those spots.
I think its a crap shoot eitherway - I am taking into consideration from a few PM’s I have gotten tonight about the possibility. What I will have to look at as well in the end is the amount of tournament being run, the possible amount of players and the limited time available to run another tourney of its potential size to account for “general argument A” of the top 8 payout versus the top 3.
Personally because of the payout amounts, if we do end up running a second tourney with top 16 from the main tournament excluded, whatever we call it, I think I will still keep it to the top 3 instead of breaking it down.
I have been reading through at least a couple hundred posts between here, zaibatsu and other tournaments and it is pretty consistent, 70/20/10 - but renegade has similar merit in his concept that you can get more folks to compete if there potential for gain is more apparent.
My original concept on this is mutiple tournaments in slightly varied categories, 3v3, singles, Tougeki standard. those are my 3 variations. For MaGFest we are looking at the “Low Tier” Concept since he wanted a system that allows for the competitors to come and be happy and something that doesnt scare away the casual competitors…
bringing about my Low Tier SFIV concept (coming from the MvC2 idea to a degree).
Keits if all goes to hell, I’ll just blame you lol.
I agree on that part… it takes alot of time to set up a 5v5, and when are you coming back i got some tricks for you
Its all good, Manny. Im just saying that there is zero reason to have the 5th and 7th place tie playoff for their positions, when the people landing in those positions is generally VERY random to begin with due to the format.
there is no tourney for this game right? its just gonna be available to play? i see you got 2 of the latest ones on the PS2 list which is good.
We are waiting to confirm an Empress machine for the show. If we get it, we will host a tourney on that downstairs in our DDR Lounge. for now no, there is no tourney for this listed. But we have a solid team from the Boston DDR scene that are pushing for this and a Pop’n Tournament. Since the only Tourney they are running at the moment is the DDR tournaments.
Keits, you and I are on the same boat, I’ve wanted to do the top 8’s for a long time but the last few spots become cumbersome to really determine. If it moves forward to do the low tier, I’m keeping it top 3, I think I might have already stated that though.
You and I need a beer in NEC - and none of that vegetable shit…
alright, just please post if you can an empress machine with a tourney setup so I can start buyin plane tickets and getting ready. Would there be a guarenteed pot for this or just $entry fee 70/20/10?
I can’t afford to come to NEC, but I’d love to otherwise. Have fun out there, see you in FL!
I am definitely going to try, and we have a few other groups coming in to sponsor some ad dollars that have not been declared yet. I want the machine…but I am not ready to buy one, so I am going to rent it for the weekend, the one person I can get it from is in California (I can get it for a decent price). Just have to work out the details, logisticly. Since we have DM Ashura it would be a great item to have for him to showcase his music.
I don’t really want to run this tourney unless its on the cabinet. When it is announced it will be the standard tourney setup, at that time I will keep working on getting a bonus and put that in an account so it sits until the tourney.
Keep an eye out for the DDR Feak board for that info. We will probably have some announcements on that end after Turkey day…
Enjoy your turkeys guys, I am going to go relax for tonight…
HYPE THE TURKEY!