Against Zangief, you will likely play around the distance where is j.HP and green hands will hits max range :
_Be sure to be able to punish green hands reliably (cr.MP, cl.MP, st.lk, …)
_Be sure to be able to whiff-punish green hands reliably (cr.mp, cr.mk, …)
_Be sure to be able to whiff-punish Gief’s crouching hard kicks reliably (cr.hk, cr.mk, …)
_Be sure to know how to deal with every options Gief has when he jumps (max distance jump hp/empty, jumping 2lk, …)
That’s the only technical points you need to ensure zoning. Over that, everything else is mind game and player’s level. (good) Zangief will progress on the ground with footsies. Fireballs and zoning game will force him to progress in the air. Then your anti air game will win. If you ever use the wrong mindset (i.e. : fireballing when he jumps over), then you die. Simple as that.
Well if he gets in with greenhands then your fireball timing is kinda predictable.
When does he gets in with ex greenhands in particular ? I actually got hit quite a lot by greenhands after cr.MP antiair into ex fireball (mostly to catch focus dashes).
If you are at the right distance it is just extremely hard to do greenhands on reaction. You also have to consider the risk he has to take especially when he has no meter to fadc.
If you feel hes getting too close throw a fireball, follow it in and throw him. Or just dashup throw. Right after forward throw be sure to dash immediately since the characters are getting pushed away if you do immediate dashes to gain space. You can also throw any of his moves on wakeup except EX Greenhand.
You shouldn’t rely on fireballs too much. While they’re essential in this matchup you should also consider the risk you’re taking when throwing them. If hes fullscreen then do as you want but once he gets closer you might as well start playing footsies (far.MP, far.MK, cr.MK, cr.HK, far.HK) until hes convinced not to jump again. This matchup is also a good way to practise to confirm your stores. Everytime your opponent blocks a fireball you get a free store + antiair if they jump right after. The better players I’ve encountered usually jump over the LK fireball just before it hits them to punish autopiloted stores.
At far range I try to antiair with far.MK most of the time since it’s the most reliable due to beating the j.LK whiff into SPD. If hes closer you can resort to cr.MP or cr.HP.
Also Juris cr.MK goes under his cr.LP so you can basically punish his cr.LP attempts after SPD > LP greenhand whiff > cr.LP
After knee crossup/front mixups you can do cl.HP. It beats the neutraljump headbutt, most normals (unless it hits deep) and any SPD attempt. You can mix it up with cl.MK too but be aware that cl.MK loses to neutraljump.HP (headbutt)
In the end it’s all about mindgames. Zone him out, think twice about throwing out fireballs at a closer range, make use of your pokes and defensive options and don’t get predictable with fireballs.
I’ve long felt like I’ve been stuck at a plateau and thinking that I’m just not understanding something fundamentally and it might just be that my spacing isn’t that great.
Also I might press too many buttons.
Does anybody else have major problems dealing with Cody? Air attacks always beat mine. I cant find any good openings after I block attacks. I could almsot swear he grabs me during block stun. When I do manage to find an opening, we trade consistently.
Cody is kinda weird. Personally I think Juri beats him but that doesn’t change the fact that he can be really annyoing up close. He also can’t put you into an infinite string of blockstun.
There are huge openings you just have to look out for them.
Cody framedata on block:
cr.LP +2
cr.LK -1
cr.MP -1
cr.HP -1
cl.HP +1
fwd.MP +1
I just assume that he is getting in a lot with fwd.MP which he shouldn’t do (It’s really hard to pin point your problem without any replays and more specific infos).
That move has 12 startup frames. If he uses it to get in again because he spaced himself out you can tag him with cr.MK xx HK pinwheel or far.MK.
You just have to press a button (far.MK) the moment he tries to get in again. He can’t confirm from a further range unless he takes some risks.
If you have some free space behind you backdash and punish his next attempt to get in if he does anything at all (again far.MP far.MK and cr.MK)
Also don’t give up space just to store and throw fireballs. Keep your ground and start playing footsies. His footsies are pretty shit and if you can play footsies vs Ryu then Cody shouldn’t be a problem.
His air attacks aren’t even that good. j.HP has a decent amount of startup. I don’t know about the other ones. I usually don’t lose air to air (j.MP is godlike) but you don’t have to jump in this matchup.
Juri wins on the ground by a long shot, there is no need to jump except for safejumps or to punish his rocks (divekick). Don’t even allow him to throw the rocks at you. Punish them as soon as possible during the match.
His EX Slide is also not that reliable due to it’s speed. It’s not the fastest move and I don’t think it’s that good vs Juri unless you become really predictable (always fireballs/stores after antiairs etc)
He is also somewhat free on wakeup.
Setups:
Crossup Divekick: backthrow > jump > around 3/4 of your jump maybe a bit earlier do a LK Divekick
After backthrow you can crossup divekick him which allows you to juggle into U2 or to activate FSE and then juggle with far/cl.MP.
Fake crossup corner: fwd throw > store > dash > j.LK (also unblockable on Guy)
You can also use this as a safejump with nj.HK instead of j.LK.
Fake crossup corner: fwd throw > empty neutraljump > whiff s.LK > j.LK /j.HP
Also fake crossup but looks different. You land behind him though. j.HP is unblockable.
Fake crossup corner: HK Senpusha knockdown (no quickrise) > backdash > cr.MP > forward dash > j.LK
Another fakecrossup off a soft knockdown if he doesn’t quickrise.
Safe blockstun: fwd throw into corner (point blank corner) > backjump > EX LK release > dash
From that range you can overhead to go over lows and the fireball part is also safe vs reversals. If he does anything you will block it right after the dash.
safe meaty: fwd throw > dash 4x > cr.MP
Only loses to EX Criminal Upper, you recover in time if he uses EX Zonk. You can also replace the cr.MP with a TK dive if he likes to backdash at this point. Btw, this goes for almost any meaty setup. EX Criminal Upper is also only 4 frames invincible and has 7 frames of startup. If you think he will do it just do a delayed meaty (cr.LK ?).
There are a shitton of safejumps vs Cody and don’t forget that you could go always do emptyjump low or j.HK > j.HP instant overheads. Nothing great but hey it’s there.
In the corner: cl.MP xx LK release, cr.MK xx Store.
You can just lurk at that range and try to whiffpunish his cr.LK’s or other moves if he tries to press buttons. You can reach him but he can’t reach you. Most people think that since store is -1 they’re free to press buttons.
Also TK dives after store are also neat in the corner. It’s easy to juggle him with U2.
If you have any replays you should post them. It would be a lot easier to pin point your mistakes that way.
The only strong anti ground normal he has is neutral jump fierce, other than that you should be able to cleanly anti air him using whatever normals you want.
Unless you mean air to air, in which case the Cody player is just hitting their air to air normal faster.
The easiest way to get used to cody’s offense is just to practice a lot and see how much blockstun each of his normals has. Normals like f+mp are deceiving because the frame advantage varies depending on how far away Cody is when he does the move.
One general tip against Cody’s offense is force the Cody player to use low hitting moves by back dashing or walking back during frame traps. Cody doesn’t have good low hitting hit confirms like other characters, if Cody wants to hit you low, he only has one guess, as any low hitting attack is - on block.
I have replays but no way to record them. It also doesnt really help that ive been on and off with this game for months(mostly off for 6 months or so.).
You can just aim a camphone/handcam at the screen and record the replay as it plays on your TV/PC. Ghetto, but it serves its purpose if you have no capture device.
I don’t have a lot of Cody/Juri on my YT, but I hope this helps:
Ideally you def want to zone him, and not get suckered into his frame trap game. I have the feeling that’s what’s happening on the ground in your case. Cody j. hp is definitely no Sakura j. hp :lol:
Also since Ramma plays both characters, he might know something about this m/u.
Wow, that yolo Juri. That’s a prime example how -not- to play that matchup, imo.
Here’s what I’ve got on Cody:
Zone his ass, but don’t get too reliant on fireballs. Cody players love their EX.ruffian kicks, and I think zonk knuckles can go under mid fireballs.
If he gets in and starts hitting buttons, just block and wait for him to push you out. Crouch teching will get you killed.
His nj.HP will beat EX.pinwheel clean on Juri’s wakeup.
EX.zonk can trade or beat EX.pinwheel, blows up crouch tech, catches backdash, and breaks armor. Seriously, just block.
LP.criminal upper is -5 on block, the others are worse. You can always get at least a 70 damage punish with far.MK. You might be able to get cr.MK into a combo on non-LP CUs.
Juri’s nj.HK is pretty good on Cody’s wakeup. Will destroy him if he tries any Zonks. Timed right it should beat CU and back+MP too.
All his jumpins are easy to anti-air.
Criminal uppers and the dirt part of U2 count as projectiles and do not break armor. You can EX.pinwheel or EX.counter both of these, though against a decent Cody it probably won’t come up.
If the Cody player starts throwing you a lot, use close.MK instead of trying to tech. Air reset and pushed back out a little is much better than getting caught by a frame trap.
Sucks, I def want to see OP’s replays to see the air-to-air thing. Surely j. mp is going to beat most of Cody’s stuff clean. If it’s his jumpin vs your ground defense then f. s. mk or c. mp no problem.
I think he may have just been hitting his buttons slightly before me. I trying harder on figuring out what’s missing out of my play style from before i quit, rather than why i was specifically getting my ass kicked by cody. But i do know i was having trouble with the matchup. Ill upload soon when i feel like melting my phone. Those mobile uploads take a toll lol
Any help vs Hakan ? I recently had the chance to play a few decent ones and it’s a really weird matchup.
I usually try to run away until hes out of oil and then I kinda proceed to be more offensive zoning so he doesn’t get the chance to oil again but while hes oiled he really feels overwhelming in the neutralgame.
He can focus parry through any normals I would throw out, once he gets closer and starts focus sliding I can’t really throw fireballs nor poke him out of it. I tried to EX Wheel but I don’t have it at the start while hes oiled + he could just backdash. Also once he has EX available theres also EX slide which seems to be really fast. Can he cancel that thing into EX SPD ? I tried to punish it and I know it’s really unsafe but sometimes I just get grabbed a few frames after I blocked it. dafuck ?
I can’t really do anything offensive either. He would oildive me out of overheads and TK dives (I just now realize how stupid it is considering his throw range while oiled).
cl.MK loses to the parry, safejumps lose to EX SPD (not sure about U2 but I guess anything I do would lose too)
If hes out of oil it’s quite easy but if they make smart use of the oil shower then it’s pretty tough. I also can’t runaway the whole time too since theres a corner and I don’t want to be there lol.
Hakan´s neutral is one of the best in this game, will be even better in USF4.
Fireball zoning isn´t really effective against Hakan. EX Slide is really good against fireballs. His jump arc and other mobility options also help here.
He can´t cancel his Slide into a SPD, but a FADC is possible with good frame advantage.
His Oil Slide is -17 on block, if it connects on the first active frames(All slides have 21 active frames btw). You got grabbed, because these slides were actually safe, since they connected on their latest active frames, so something like +1-4 on block.
Oil Dives are good against normals with airborne frames.
Maybe I’ve just never played a good Hakan, I try to play it safe and slow and far away until he either tries to get in or tries to oil up again. At that point I knock him down and have my way with him. Very few fireballs. Almost never have any problems…
Hakan’s U2 will not catch a real safejump, because you’d be on the ground before it activates. It does give him the anti-air / anti-ground mixup of U2 / SPD though.
All of this is situational though. He can be zoned despite Ex slide being able to punish her for trying it she just has to be wary of using it.
I’d say the best way to handle Hakan is watching his meter and always going for 2 hits. Be it far mk, or normal xx store which should be fast enough to real his focus. Like the T-Hawk I think using cl.mk is best on his wake up as a meaty to avoid pretty much anything he wants to try. Cancel it into store though. His U2 may catch her and his super.
Hakan doesn’t have a way to alternate his jumps but his air throw is really good. So air-to-air AA’ing isn’t going to help but her cr.mp should be able to beat all of his jump ins.
Try to keep your block strings true. His hurt box is dumb and sometimes going from cr.lk to st.lk can make you go in the far range. When that happens her true string is gone (idk if this is true or not but it’s happened plenty to me) and he’s able to mash ex spd on her.
Even with his godsend oil backdash or even focus oil backdash, I believe Hakan still suffers when being pressured. More so than when he is being zoned. Don’t try to zone him when he isn’t oiled. If you are far away and he is unoiled, dive kick him if he tries to oil and put him in the corner. You should know that hitting a crouching button on wake up helps against fuzzy oil air grab. Don’t play too recklessly and watch his movement. If it helps, I believe slide + follow up then st.mp jump is a safe jump or might be an unblockable.
There’s probably more to the match. I’d say it’s even match.
cr.MK or normal xx store loses to focus parry. I did cl.MK xx store on his wakeup quite often and I ate the parry all the time.
Far.MK sounds good but I am not too sure if its reliable. He can just focus slide out of the 2 hit range, absorb the hit and crumple juri.
cr.MP and far.MK are definitely the best antiairs.
I actually forward dashed out of oil dives.
When hes out of Oil I start playing more offensive but after playing with him for a bit in practise mode I just realized how bad he is without oil.
It feels like 4-6 or worse if hes oiled. Once hes out he cant do anything. If the Hakan is smart tho he won’t run out of it that fast and I hate the matchup until then lol.
So many mistakes in my post. I hate re-reading shit. I can’t even test shit so I’m just going by past experiences and playing around with Hakan. Oiled kan is nuts though, dash cancels are dumb. Like seriously remove that shit.
Cl.mk gets beat by super, U2, and ex oil dive, because it is airborne. Super punishes the recovery (he has to use the right version though, each strength of super has different properties)
As long as you chain the normals as soon as possible, it is a true blockstring. (You are essentially removing all recovery frames + leftover active frames when chaining a normal)
Parry on wakeup can be beat by:
Divekick (armor breaking)
Meaty throw
ex pinwheel (which beats almost all his options)
st.mk
Meaty crossup or delayed crossup
Also I think cr.lk st.lk string might beat it on wakeup (but you may have to delay it slightly instead of it being meaty.
Of course, all of these answers have risk and can be beat by some other option. But his wakeup is by no means unbeatable. I think it is Juri’s favor to press the advantage on wakeup. Yes, he has answers for every option, but if you keep it unpredictable you make it very hard for him.
Of course, you don’t have to pressure him on his oiled wakeup if you don’t feel confident enough, just store a few fireballs and wait for oil to run out/punish his attempts to oil up.