I’ve changed the settings on the video. Hopefully you can see it now.
Regarding Abel step kick, I think Juri option of being able to jump/close mk is enough to pressure. Bascially if he step kicks in he has to think. He has to share some risk despite him setting up. Is true Abel has counters, but if he guesses wrong and say went for falling sky, he wasted a valuable opportunity because Juri gets out for free or goes for a grab and we ended up neutral jumping. Let’s not forget the match up, Juri is literally keeping Abel out the entire match. As an Abel player, you really want to get in and get that knock down.
That is what I’m trying to find regarding Yang set up. I was hoping the Juri boards has answers because my Yang match up is really lacking.
If Juri jumps she eats the falling sky and if she uses cl.MK she uses it too. She basically has to guess between an airthrow and a grounded one. I think if he times it right he can even blowup Juris cl.HP since its airborne after the 3rd frame.
The Yang setup you posted is the one I meant and not eiSH his setup with the cr.LK whiff into the wrong direction :p. You can cl.MK as eish said but he could just raw launch you again into the same mixup again and once you become scared he can use commandgrabs and other weird mixups.
If he goes for falling sky and you do crouch tech or do nothing? I’m not saying Abel should have no advantage. Just saying there’s at least something to lose.
For the Yang set up, that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Precisely as you said, as of now, Yang has 100% going his way in that set up (against me at least).
So far what I’ve tested
eISH cl mk.
I tried mashing but I couldn’t always get it to work though. Timed it accordingly seemed good enough. Although you only eat a jab rather than the full combo with the mix up again, Yang still has the upper hand. Also, there’s only so much time we can mash till we get predictable.
cl mp.
Since to cross up, you have to slightly delay his cr light, cl mp seemed to trade in our favour. However, if it doesn’t, we eat the full combo again. Again, this doesn’t seem to be the option.
neutral throw
Beats all lights regardless of direction. If Yang techs, we’re back at square one. I would like to think this will be in Juri’s favour. Can someone confirm if cl mk beats throw? Wouldn’t this be a good option to go for if we have no bars?
Ex Pinwheel
Just commit one direction I think he will most likely be and try for an EX pinwheel. If he ends up on the wrong side, EX fireball comes out instead and the cr jab will hit on the air frames ala eISH logic.
This is what I’ve been testing thus far. I’ve haven tried if ex Pinwheel trades with Yang cl mk or not though.
PS: One thing I must state clearly before people misunderstands and gets out of hand, I’m not looking for an easy, cheap way to get out of set ups for free. The character doing the set up should have the advantage. I’m just saying we should always try our best to put pressure on their set ups and don’t give them the confidence to control the match.
cl.MP and neutral throw are suicide because he is at frame advantage (recovers before Juri). cr.LK and cr.LP/s.LP will always beat both of them if they timed their attacks correct. EX Pinwheel also always trades if the meaty hits properly.
cl.MK works if it’s meaty but his cl.MK will launch you.
Juris cl.MK is airborne for frames 1-6 (during startup) and will beat throws due to making them whiff.
If you try to EX wheel and he does cl.MK he will most likely launch you into the air where he get’s a free ultra (nr 1 corner, u2 anywere)
Regarding Abel, he basically sets up a mixup where risk reward is equal for Juri and Abel. If he goes for falling sky and you are not in the air it whiffs and you can punish. However if you feel like backjumping or cl.MK his falling sky and cl.HP will beat or trade your escape attempts. cr.LK will make cl.HP whiff but will lose to EX tornadothrows. If I was an Abel player I would only go for falling sky if I knew that my opponent thinks that cl.MK beats all my offensive attempts.
I agree on the Abel situation shiroyasha is getting at. It’s a dumb situation where both have a dumb advantage over each others options. I showed a friend genki’s Abel set and I asked him if he wanted to look at the situation in a match. I always thought Abel was +1 as well. We came up with the results shiroyasha said. A dumb situation.
Did you test it against the set up I’ve shown? If you’ve tested it against the set up you shown in your video, then nothing works because Yang will always be at frame advantage. But, like you mention, that set up is not the real problem and not for me atm.
All the options I’ve tried can be done against cross up cr light because Yang needs to delay his jab and hence losing his frame advantage. It can still be countered of course, but like I mentioned several times, I’m trying to look for options rather than just taking it.
Regarding Abel, I conclude that I must be absolutely terrible at explaining because what Shiroyasha and Lion_Jak is just what I’ve said since my first post about the step kick. There are risks on both sides. This is like the thrid time I’m saying this already. lol
I don’t know what I said that gave you this idea that cl.mk > everything. o.o Again, I must be terrible at words. =(
Nah I didn’t mean you. It’s just that it’s a common tactic to use cl.MK because it gives her an airreset and beats the grounded Tornadothrows. Not really many Abel players I have seen consider falling sky an option against Juri. So if my opponent keeps using cl.MK because he isn’t aware of the risk I would punish them with falling sky.
My post wasn’t related to you. I just imagined playing abel vs a cl.MK happy Juri
Being a hard to use character doesn’t guarantee you’ll automatically curbstomp everyone with ease.
Ryu, from my experience, pulls even with practically anyone. There’s just this stigma that he’s free, given he’s the default go-to beginner character and there are so many Ryu players relative to everyone else.
But in this game, once you go up the skill ladder, you have to consider practically every character as a threat.
This is from my experience and also watching friends. The only characters that really give Ryu a hard time are Dhalsim and a smart, air Jaguar happy Adon. Maybe Akuma/Seth, but there’s the damage handicap there.
I kinda have been hitting a plateau lately with Juri I think. Or maybe it’s just something pretty fundamental which I do not understand (yet).
The thing is what should I do vs really patient players that won’t jump at all and just walk me into the corner (and are pretty good at keeping me there).
Vs Ryu or generally Shotos or anything that has decent walkspeed and a good cr.MK I actually have to take risks when I want to try to be offensive for a very short amount of time to create a bit more space. When I am close to the corner I tend to do dashup and throw which may work at first but in longer set this is suicide. It’s also kinda tough to whiffpunish and with juri it doesn’t feel like I can apply most of the elements of majs footsie handbook which I have been trying to use a lot lately (mostly because of the lacking walkspeed). I try to be less off a stationary Juri lately but I don’t know. It’s kinda weird I might as well post videos later.
It doesn’t feel like I have much options vs opponents that will just bulldozer their way through the fireballs.
Another thing I’ve been wondering about is the Akuma matchup.
I never liked it with Juri but I’ve read/heard here in the forums and a few streams (juicebox) that Juri can keep Akuma at bay and that it is pretty even.
I don’t get how to play this matchup at all. I got pretty decent at blocking mixups but it really feels like I suck in the neutralgame. I noticed it at the tournament last weekend but the Akumas I asked didn’t know anything decent either lol. This character just gets in randomly with an ex demonflip/ex airfireballs and if he knocks me down I can start to guess. If I guess right I might get out and the same thing repeats. I won’t inflict enough damage > at some point he will get in again and eventually I will get hit by a mixup which will cause another mixup > repeat.
If you want to post a video, I can comment on what I see/ notice and advise you on better ways to approach the matchup. There’s too much to write for just a general synopsis x.x
Also, Akuma should never be able to EX demonflip you in neutral unless you are being too predictable with fireball patterns. You can just j.mp it on reaction. EX air fireball is only a threat around cr.hk range/ near corner. If you are looking for it , you can focus dash under him or L counter the fireball. If he does it from further distance, just jump back and let him waste his meter.
>Juri vs Zangief
>Spend 90 seconds keeping him out
>He’s gonna get in eventually because a billion health and ex green hand
>Only needs one mixup to totally overwrite any damage I’ve done to him
I pretty much only spend this matchup throwing fireballs and pressing medium kick and I still lose.
So obviously I’m doing something wrong.
Should I take a risk and actually jump-in sometime after knocking him down?
How can I get out of the corner? Roundhouse dive over his head doesn’t work too often for me. He’s big enough to be in the way.
Normally the person getting zoned should be the one getting angry but this one actually pisses me off because I spend an entire round doing my best to keep him out only to eventually get cornered and ultra’d or SPD’d to death.
Please help me rethink this matchup.
The way I explained is pretty much hardwired like that into my brain. I just need a few ideas or pointers to help me change it up a bit.
I’m a little too scared to empty jump cl.MK but if you think its a risk worth taking every once in a while, then I’ll probably try it.
Far HK is really good against Gief. Also make sure you’re antiairing him as much as possible, with HP preferably. Attacking him on wakeup is hard - if you go for an airborn normal to beat SPD, he can just lariat to beat it. Juri’s on the losing end of that mixup so I just use knockdowns as a chance to store fireballs or get spaced better. You could go for jb.MP too. When he’s walking forward you can sometimes catch his feet with cr.MK and go into a combo from there.
How do you get out of the corner? You don’t. Maybe dash under him when he jumps, or absorb a jumpin with LP counter. Your best bet is to not get there in the first place. Don’t back up when zoning, make a wall out of your pokes that he can’t get through.