Hey guys, so I need a little help. I was playing online today and was getting total raped by Ryu,Bison, and Cammy.
First Ryu, I find his fireballs are punishable is reacted on time, but that seems to be the only safe way I can find myself to get in besides getting lucky and using her counter (Juris) It get’s really frustrating when these character turtle a lot as well, (Ryu and Bison) I just cannot ever seem to find a safe way to get in, almost everything I try and put out safety when playing Ryu is wiffed punished, jumping in isn’t smart his d/p is godlike, etc.
For Bison well as a charge character I don’t mind turteling as much, but getting in is a little hard for me. Though when I block a crusher or legs it’s pretty easy to punish somewhat.
And as for Cammy…What’s a good way to keep her out of my face??? I get stuck with a lot of frame trades, crossups, and cannon strikes.
You shouldn’t have any problems vs zoning characters if you know how to use Juri’s Fuhaswap. Remember, the storing part (up kick) can also stuff projectiles. So use that to your advantage. Example: lk store (stuff), mk store (stuff), mk release (stuff), lk release (goes under hadoken) + hk dive kick to punish.
If you use Kasatushi, use the HP version. LP can work sometimes, but not so much on a very good player so only use it sparingly. With HP version, it’s a safe escape from hadoken, plus you can go for a “safe dive kick” from there.
Also, if you’re low on health and Ryu plans to chip-finish you on your wake up with a hadoken, use ex kasatushi.
Of course don’t forget about Focus Attack. Absorb a hadoken, then dash and go for an airborne attack (instant dive kick, Sekku or far st.hk) these will all go over Ryu’s cr.mk. EX fuhajin also works.
edit: btw I don’t know if you’ve even realized it yet, but hotaru made this awesome vid on the Ryu matchup: [media=youtube]I9PC86jYaTo[/media]
A lot of good tips in there so check it out.
I got nothing vs Cammy. I feel you have to play her like a watered down version of Fei Long.
Against Cammy, there isn’t any safe option out of her traps. If you got knocked down you have to pay the price to get out.
EX counter would be the easiest option between her strings because she has no armor breaking moves in her ‘rush-down’ moves. But if you get thrown then it’s back to square 1.
Another option would be OS cr.mp and tech throw (lp + lk + mp), so if Cammy decides to do a cannon strike in her block string you can cr.mp to stuff it and tech if she throws. But your OS can be beaten with Cammy’s st.mp frame trap. It is also beaten by a delayed cannon strike (but you can jump mp this).
Cammy match is a test of patience and reactions imo. She will bulldoze your juri free some matches and others you’re able to do the dirty to her. its…a very frustrating match. Its like viper, fei long, Dudley, or anyone with great mix up.
Admit to yourself first that you can escape, you do have options. You just have to make good reads.
Once you start learning cammy setups for her rush down you can safely guess distances. You can “Ready” yourself because you know her options from one kic, 2 kicks, 3 kicks, etc etc etc. Also…remember we have kasatushi. be careful, she can ultra punish this easily. We have to be smarter, faster, stronger.
OS MP/Tech is great as silent said. Zoning her isnt a bad option either. Her low fireball beats ultra, and spiral arrows. She cant use it like she uses it vs everyone else. Be patient, read ahead, and just watch for late/early dive kicks to beat our anti airs.
Anytime she drops a combo, c.hp xx hk pinwheel. Nothing less. If shes far, be careful…could be a bait.
Mid fireballs keeps her honest on wake up. Bait the DP’s and you should be fine on offense. Her defense isnt that scary really.
god damn it. I fought a really great Guile player who knew the Juri match up and could block very well XD. Yeah i lost a ton of my matches to time out and just getting beat down trying to get in. Got disrespected some matches too, guile corner stuffed me a few matches. The fight is up the in air for me, but i feel that should be one of my priority matches to learn, analyze and win. If any of you can shed some light on how you deal with good guile players who can block the cross ups.
On a side note: Canon Spike can fly right through any fuhajin you throw at her. So if you go for a fuhajin on Cammy’s wake up, make sure you are out of reach.
EDIT:
Just tested again to be sure. Canon Spike is a really weird move and is similar to Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut. It doesn’t really have projectile invincibility per say, but it’s traveling properties + hittable box makes it a hard move to stuff. It’s still possible though but timing and spacing is important.
You wanna be outside Canon Spike’s range like I said. At sweep range, you will trade. Any closer and canon spike will fly through the fuhajin and hit you. You can’t just throw it like you do vs Ryu. A little hard to explain…
Oh my god this morning I was facing like 3 vipers and I won once I rush her down like fire was on my back lol. It’s a hard match for me never had experience with Viper. But, I just rush her down with combos out the bottom.
Focus it, use juri’s dodge move, jump up and neutral jump hk, or jump back mp or mk. The thing you need to remember most about Vega is that he has reach over Juri, so always store a fire ball before approaching him. Once your corner vega, he’s pretty much helpless.
this is coming from a Vega main, Juri is free on wake up for Vega, and the izuna loop completely rapes her. if vega gets a knockdown near the corner (assuming the vega knows what theyre doing) the match should end right there.
most guaranteed way around Vega’s dives is c.MK under them, coz it dodges both the slash and the Izuna drop (if timed right). Doesnt work if its an EX dive though coz they can do a double slash and still catch you.
if its just random dives just jump back HK/MK or nj.HK and you’ll smack him out of it everytime. if its done as a meaty your only option is Pinwheel (ex or LK) and hope that the spacing messes the izuna loop spacing.
what you want to do is stay up in his grill nonstop, Vega crumbles under pressure and he’s very free on wake up. get in there, do a mixup or two, get a knockdown and STAY on his ass.
Dont give him any space to breath or stick out that c.MP, if you get a knockdown and you have your safejumps set up right then outside of U2 there’s nothing he can do but block the wake pressure. just make sure you do lots of tight frametraps coz vegas love to mash that c.MP mid blockstrings.
Mid range is where vega shines best coz of the range on his pokes, notably his s.MK and his df.HK. its also where his karathrow becomes really scary so try to either give yourself space and zone him out with fireballs; not easy as he has alot of ways around those, but its still an option. your other option is close in and nonstop pressure.
one last thing, make them pay if they ever try to do his flips, the KKK one can be punished on reaction by an EX pinwheel or a Focus into Ultra, the PPP one you can HK dive on reaction, you gotta be quick though, and i think if you perdict it you can do dash (probably 2 dashes) and EX pinwheel or Super.
Blanka… cant help you there man i hate fighting that guy too lol
There is nothing vega can do on wake up that someone with solid defense can’t beat. Vegas offense is all throw mix up. Block and tech. You’re fine.
As for the throw loop… yawns. I have seen no reason to fear it. If there’s a vega out there doing it to juris and it’s working I want him to do it to me. I dare him.
Blanka is a match about meter IMO. Get a kd fast… The rush him. Once he gets a meter, back away and zone. Fireballs to keep him out. Don’t let him build more.
If he hops, throw. No blankas are gonna charge a move there. If he does… You have a problem. Most hops are followed by electricity, jabs or throws. Throw beats first 2.
Save your super for punishing blanka balls. Dash forward, lk pin xx super.
what exactly are you doing against the loop to beat it Kail? I’m 200% sure that if its done right Juri cant do anything but jump up her own ass and die…
I’ve never seen anyone do this loop on me correctly. I’ve always been able to escape. The fact that I don’t remember what I did is a sign that I didn’t have any problems finding some answer.
If someone can tell me the setup I’ll be glad to test it.
I don’t see why this a problem. Again. Never seen a vega do this properly.
I play against a decent enough Vega to know that Eternal Blaze speaks more or less the truth.
The setup for Izuna Loops is just a hard knockdown near a corner into wall dive into izuna drop on the wakeup frames. The idea is to crossup your opponent as your going for the grab to stop them from making their correct inputs, when you perform this crossup is up to the user to decide at what point in the dive to do so.
Its hard to avoid because of all the weird shit that can happen, like auto correct backdashs which backdash right into where Vega is coming from and you cant do any airborn manoeuvres because its an air grab. Expinwheel and Lk pinwheel are decent enough options but ive never actually taken the Vega matchup to the lab past Hard Knockdown setups on his wakeup so im also oblivious to a solution to the problem.
One thing I like to do vs Vega is frame trap or blockstring (something like cst.lk, cst.lk, cr.mp xx lk pinwheel or simply cr.mk lk release) and then go immediatly into kasatushi or level 1 FA. I can’t reach Vega anymore but he can still reach me with cr.mp, st.mk and df.hk so if he goes for either I get a free counter or absorb. Reason why this works so much is like Eternal Blaze just said, Vega players like to mash 'em claws to create space.
Kasatushi is also useful vs other characters that like to mash their 3f pokes during blockstrings like Balrog and Bison.
I get the feeling you guys are kinda sleeping on Vega and just assume hes free because hes got no decent wakeup/AA. Air throw is actually pretty godlike for the most part, he has all the tools to bypass fireballs, slides, walldives, projectile invincible roll, a fast walk speed and far reaching normals. I could list how well suited he is against Juri and how its within the realms of a bad matchup, but its a big list and unless youve played any half decent Vega chances are you would just assume hes free, which until then, he is.
The match is bad for both. It’s fair because juri has to get in on vega and he can keep her out very well.
On the other hand… Once she’s in if he stays ahead of vega she has tools to blow vega up.
I’m not afraid of vega on my defense. Just be patient and keep you’re eyes peeled. Cut him off from his claws and vega isn’t scary IMO.
I think you are giving vega too much credit on offense and He cant do anything vs juri in the corner except block and tech. That’s exactly what I want. Especially with fse.
I play a pretty decent Vega player regularly so I think I should know a thing or two about the match up.
Focus attack can work on a Vega who is diving towards you but its has to be timed well as Vega can hit you twice when doing the dive or worse still, do his air throw!
A well timed J.mk towards will stuff his Ultra 1 before he gets a chance to activate it. Discovered this by accident, I hit Vega with the J.mk just as was jumping up towards the wall pre-activation, I saw the text for the ultra on his bar flash but seeing as I hit before its activated, it didn’t work and he lost the ultra meter.
If you intend on zoning a Vega, you really have to know what your doing as Vega can be so damn fast at times.
Get into Vega if at all possible but don’t forget he has quite a few options to get out of it, I can’t remember the moves name of the top of my head but its the spinning back one as well as the dive and both Ultras.
Thats all I can think, if I say anymore I might end up sounding like an idiot if anything else but I reckon the match up is either about even or slightly in Vega’s favor.