Duke, actually you can do it with any super. I tend to do it with Dark Fire into whiffed tools as it allows me to DHC back to Luminous Body if I have the meter.
Yeah, I just like having Firebrand at superspeed, his assists actually become awesome.
SHEILD SLASH!
[media=youtube]B6NY6Wt3c9U[/media]
Hey look at that, we’re both labbing Cap/Frank today.
Besides the Jill stuff I was going to post, I had the pleasure to play a highly skilled Zero/Frank player today who had about 3 different unique ways to level up frankthat I noticed.
- He used Zero’s ability to Dash Cancel his TAC to setup really ambigious and stupid TAC’s into the normal Frank Loop–> ST–>Songemnu–>Raw tag–> Snap
- Lightning Loop–> TAC nonsense.
- Finally, the most unique and devasting thing he used often was DHCing from Rekkoha—> Blue Light and was able to snap a pic. He was able to do this Midscreen AND corner.
Unfortunately, Work kept pestering me and stopped me from vsing him for as long as I wanted. I had no clue that You were able to DHC from Rekohha to Blue Light and snap a pic. Also, It made me think that in theory it should be possible to raw tag frank in during a Lightning Loop or during a Properly spaced and TKed Raiko M.
Jill info: ill with Arrow Kick
Jill on point/Straight to level 4
Jill can level Frank up to 4 in the corner and Midscreen with an MGS–> Blue light special with a quickly snaped pic. This only works in P1 Corner and midscreen, but works with a happy birthday in P2. However, happy birthday in P1 doesn’t work. Works no matter the assist
Jill on point/Straight to Frank 3 with Arrow Kick for Four
Jill can get Frank to 3 with a quick Raven Spike DHC into Tools of Survival Hyper and Call Jill–>Snap–s.S–>j.S–>Snap for level 4. She can also get him to 3 via a Raw tag after her double bounce ender (Arrow kick–> Double Knee Drop Heavy) or after her 22S M Roundhouse, which is a bit harder but saves your groundbounce. Can be used anywhere
Jill of course has an install level 3 so she can utilize that for raw Tags into Snaps.
Jill with Cartwheel Assist
JIll can utilize Jump loops into a Flip–> Raven Spike–> Dhc into Frank for The regular Call Jill–> Snap–>Snap. Can be used anywhere
You muse utilize the 22S M raw tags since her Ground bounce is her assist, harder link but possible.
Frank on point with Arrow Kick assist
You could do your regular BNB, end in Call Jill arrow,snap arrow for about level 4.
Frank on point with Cart
Regular BNB, Call Jill, Snap,Snap. There’s alot of variations you can do after calling jill like using his wall bounce, utilizing a TK Tools L,etc.
Rest is from my guide, copy pasta ahead.
FRANK ON POINT w/ JILL
Frank really has an easier time getting in/ zoning people out with Jill’s arrow kick (Jill actually has all the properties of a moving projectile with arrow kick) as an assist. Frank can also reach level 4 with some basic combos due to Arrow Kick’s soft knockdown. People also seem to forget that He CAN Relaunch at level 1 Here’s a nice Frank West combo that gives frank Level 4. The timing on regular sized opponents is a bit stricter on the Assist S,j.S part, but it’s still really easy.
M,H,2H,S, MxxSurvival Tactics L,Mxx Survival Tactics L,j.MS, j.236H,S, MMHS, Call Arrow kick, Snap,s.Sxxj.S, snap.
Frank also benefits from Cartwheel, infact with it, he can snap two pics. However, you can use a ground bounce, meaning you have to be a bit Creative! Depending on your third assist, you can create some pretty neat things and keeping your ground bounce at the end. Also, you can TK the snap shot and combo after it with certain things during the cartwheel. Here’s a neat combo that uses Sent’s drones and utilizes Frank recovering fast enough to jump cancel his Medium zombies.
Zombie Throw M, j.MMHS, j.MMHS,call sent,S,MxxSurvival tactics L,MS,Drop Into Drone, S,MHS, Call Jill, Snap, Home Run,S,HS,Snap,Survival Tactics.
Scratch that, I lied. That combo works, but you can reach level 4 with Jill and without Sent in a much easier way.
Zombie Throw M, [j.MMHS,MMHS], M,S,MxSurvival Tools L,MS, Call Jill Cartwheel, Snap, s.S,J.S, Snap, Tools of Survival for level 4 and 800k.
Or… Without Zombie throw, you can do your regular launch into 3 Survival Tools L, Take one Pic then relaunch with cartwheel, then S,j.S/J.HS then snap another pic.
More Info (stolen from my post in the Jill Valentine forums) on the Jill/Frank Properties of MGS in certain locations depending on the situation
Frank can combo off his Blue Light Special Wall bounce as long as your opponent is caught above Frank’s shoulders.
Jill Can manufacture the situation and it’s her most optimal way of getting Frank to 4 in the corner (p1).
Pretty much, it’s odd properties need to broken down in conjunction with Jill’s MGS (which also has odd properties due to it’s size ranging damage and bullet absorption)
In what I’m about to right, Jill can always DHC into blue light. However when I say “cannot DHC into Blue Light” I refer to that the Blue light isn’t going to carry them outside of the corner.
In p1 Corner (1 Character) , Jill can combo into MGS and DHC into Blue light. Your opponent Falls OUT of the corner after MGS allowing you to DHC into BL.
In p1 Corner (Happy Birthday), Jill can combo into MGS but cannot DHC into Blue Light, opponents do not fall out of the corner. However, Frank can snap a pic on the Assist Character
In P1 Corner (Merry Christmas)- Jill can combo into MGS but cannot DHC into Blue Light , opponents do not fall out of the corner. Frank can snap a pic on the two assist characters.
MidScreen (1 Character)) Jill can Combo into MGS–> Dhc at any point into Blue Light. Frank can Combo after with s.S or snap a pic. After snapping a pic, depending on distance you can also FFC.
MidScreen (Happy Birthday/Merry Christmas) - Jill can combo–> MGS–> Dhc at any point into Blue Light. Frank can combo after with a Snap or pic. Should even get you to 5.
In P2 Corner (1 Character)- Jill can combo into MGS but cannot DHC into blue light. Oddly enough, with a few characters they will fall OUT of the corner after MGS allowing you to DHC into BL
In P2 Corner (Happy Birthday)- Jill can Combo into MGS and can DHC into blue light. Can Snap a pic afterward.
in P2 Corner (Merry Christmas)- Jill can combo into MGS but cannot DHC into blue light on all characters. On a few however, it does cross up. Either way Frank can snap a pic on the two assisted characters.
Also, Strider can DHC from Legion at any point into Survival Techniques. This allows Frank to take a pic And then FFC for a near unblockable situation.
FFC’s resets are either 0% or 100%. the Variance is the lack of knowledge of the opponent.
not really, characters with poor air mobility can be set up for an inescapable FFC
…You’re talking to the guy who spearheaded FFC resets on non-air mobile characters. Any situation is either one that those without air mobility can escape, or can’t escape. there’s no “nearly unblockable” (and it’d actually be unavoidable) situation. The situation either is or isn’t, and if it isn’t it only works if the opponent doesn’t know any better.
Oh I see what you mean now. When you said “either 0% or 100%” I thought you meant that it either will work or won’t and that all it depends on is your opponent’s knowledge of it coming, my bad.
P.S. I never said unblockable but inescapable 
What? It still matters the direction in which they tech. For example, my Strider FFC Reset covers Front+Neutral. That’s not 0% or 100%.
You can’t say “if the opponent doesn’t know better” then say that a situation is either 0% or 100% that’s a contradiction.
Then it’s 0% once I know to tech backwards.
If an FFC isn’t inescapable (or at -least- deceptive/with options, but even then), it isn’t worth using. covering 2 techs puts you at the same (or arguably worse) odds than a TAC, which has the potential to yield far better gains. This game has too many ways to kill on a touch and punishes you too strongly for mistakes to consistently rely on your opponent’s lack of knowledge. it may bring results, but it’s not an effective long-term winning strategy. You can easily find stronger resets/oki positions that are safer and more meter efficient than one that relies on them not to know/guess which way to tech.
… but you wouldn’t know that it works backwards. Obviously this is something you wouldn’t use attempt at attempt because your opponent is going to wise up, but there is no way (unless I tell my opponent that it doesn’t work on back tech) that my opponent would know that in the start.
You can say it starts off as a 66% then easily reduces in percent through each set to 0% but to say something is 100% or 0% is wrong and seems to forget the main variable that marvel stands on, **unpredictability against an opponent. ** You’re not going to walk in a match knowing obscure setups like that.
[media=youtube]Pw7yAXXmQ0E[/media]
Correctly set up FFC Reset covers all techs. I recorded Frank doing the combo so there would be no question.
The FFC setups all require Frank to be doing them, the whole point of the strider DHC is to give Frank a way of doing them after a DHC. It’s just a little Strider DHC Tech people.
I didn’t realize you meant a DHC. I figured it was Strider assist.
Sorry Cape, just meant to correct somebody on a remark, not derail your level up compendium. If you want me to delete all this just lemmie know.
There’s other aspects of your claim that I disagree with (the ability to discern the need to back tech, the utility of the reset in the given circumstances, etc), but this remark I think is the larger problem.
For starters, I’d disagree with this being the primary variable the game stays on. I think of the remark that Combofiend made about “the goal of Marvel being to make it as much of a one player game as possible” which shows a primary emphasis on controlling the pace of a match and limiting your opponent’s options. Could certainly overlap with unpredictability, but isn’t the focus. I myself believe in the mantras of taking away your opponent’s strengths, leveraging their weaknesses, and putting yourself in safe, advantageous positions. People who play me in the local scene know what I’m going to do; I’m predictable. I tend to stick with basic patterns and repeat. Yet they still lose. Why? I pick my setups, team synergy and spots well to take action. I have a strong enough neutral game that in most matchups I can win by patience and attrition. And once Frank’s leveled I have the superior footsies against everybody in the cast except -maybe- Vergil. In fact, as a fellow Frank player I’m surprised you’d feel that way given that the best way to play him is very predictable. The only “randomness” really comes with frame trapping, but that’s more a lack of opponent’s knowledge of frame data (<3 that people think Tools L is unsafe).
But, let’s say you’re right, unpredictability is the name of the game. I’d still say it’s a bad setup. Here’s examples of what I’d consider good setups:
Nova Slide + call shopping cart on opponents who primarily have ground based game (Vergil, Wolverine, etc). If slide hits, I have a ridiculously easy hit confirm. If it’s blocked, they then have to block the shopping cart. At this point I am safe, and have pretty much every high (Centurion M, F+H, Tri jump L), Low (Centurion L, Slide), Tic Throw, and space control (Energy Javelin, Gravimetric H) option at my disposal. The risk of being hit is there, but is minimized due to the size of Frank’s shopping cart/it being disjointed and the character and assist arriving at different times. The setup allows me all the unpredicability Nova has to offer except for Left right (and you can do that iwth other setups too), leaves me safe, and even gives me other options if I don’t want to rush.
How about something more basic. Super jump with Spencer on an incoming character, Bionic Bomber. If I time it properly I genuinely have no idea whether or not it’ll be left or right, and if they’re on/near the ground I’m at advantage so I get a free frame trap to boot. Can be thrown, but that’s about it if they don’t have a double jump and I do it properly. While options are somewhat limited (though tic throw on block is definitely there), it’s fairly safe, easy hit confirm and so unpredictable even the initiatior doesn’t know which way it goes. Awesome!
Now we look at your setup. We’re talking about a three meter reset, that probably does what, 550k once legion hits? By pure guesswork it’d only work 66% of the time, and given that we’re in what I assume is level 3 Frank at the time of the reset, depending on the health of the character/position on screen we might need to burn the bar we built on the follow up combo just to kill the character. So we spent up to 4 of the 2ish bars we built to kill a character, level Frank to 4, and start mixups on the next character. The other 33% of the time, Frank whiffs, gets bodied (having 4 bars in that situation to make him safe is extremely unlikely, I think that’s a reasonable assumption. And even then there’s characters who could attempt to punish frank and either trade or beat legion if you had the bar), and Strider comes in by himself short on meter with a long uphill battle…
Granted, I paint a bleak picture. I also tend to be conservative in my playstyle. That said, I still don’t see the payoff being tangible to justify going for setups like this in serious play. Especially when we’re talking about Frank, who is one of the few characters in this game who can actually have a strong enough neutral game to reliably win by attrition with a little support.
Wow, that’s a lot of text. I’mma read that later. Gotta watch me some stream.
But, for the record, I said it elsewhere, but add to the list for dormammu: Liberation (2B 1R) into hard tag whiff, and st.H Dark Matter into Hard tag hit in corner.
Also, curious, Stalking Flare into Hard Tag Whiff? That’s new. Anyone have examples of this?
You were the one that told me Stalking Flare into hard tag worked. Changing your mind now?
I don’t recall saying that. I must’ve mistyped, because I’ve been trying, and stalking flare tag only works if they run into it, and not so much if it’s all part of a combo.
If I did, my bad. As I sometimes proclaim, I’m dumb.