For Honor launched - happy Valhallentine's day!

Oh, I wrote this in one of my Discord’s and thought it’d come in handy for anyone who wants to know what the meta is going to evolve into going forward.

[details=Spoiler]
The top level meta for For Honor is going to be cancer, I looked at the game wrong
It’s all about quick, unreactable attacks mixed between each other to stop the threat of parry > guard break
realistically, I think only tier 1 will be viable if you’re a great player against a great player, but tier 2 heroes at least have something going for them in either damage, range or mobility
It’s definitely a top 3 of Warlord, Warden and Orochi. The way I looked at defence in the game got completely shifted and I see why the Conqueror is ass now.
also because of how I think the meta will evolve - based around the games fastest attacks or attacks that feint directions AKA Warden zone/top light, Orochi zone/top light or Warlord headbutt

Characters like the Lawbringer and Shugoki will most likely be weak due to their slow nature. I’ve seen gameplay of the Lawbringer though, he has an unbreakable(orange glow) grab attack that picks you up and throws you over the top of his head, then he gets a free top heavy.
None of this will matter against your average opponent who isn’t great at parrying and doesn’t use their unreactable attacks, but if you play someone who understands what makes blocking difficult you won’t be able to get in on them without using the same trick.
Like I’d say 80% of the playerbase is a silver rank right now, 10% gold and then 5% diamond and 5% master, so you won’t run into many annoying people who make the game feel unfun
If the game does go the way it’s already going though, it’ll need balance changes for when the community collectively start to play the same because it’s going to make one of the worst metagames in recent memory
It’ll be similar to Carthus Curved meta, you’re just unable to react to your opponent and can’t attack/run due to their superior options over yours
Probably two ways to fix this, you either adjust the fast attacks which cause problems which will probably spawn an incredibly defensive meta, or you adjust what you can do after a parry(maybe make it so you can only light attack post-parry) so that other slow attacks become viable.
I’d happily lose parry > guard break to make characters like the Conqueror or Raider less shit.[/details]

Had the greatest duel ever xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QGwP6fBJAQ

running is a legit survival tactic as much as guarding is. its really not cowardly to run if there are teammates to rez, powerups to pick up, a zone to heal up, or another location that could be useful for strategic advantage. this isn’t a karate tournament.

it’s cowardly to rage quit, and its cowardly to run if they have no gameplan to take them them down as much as they can instead of just running down the clock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqwALZsNyGU

that’s not the point

running requires no stamina, so you can run forever

this makes assassins in 4v4 game modes take up to the full game timer to kill or force a draw if it’s a 1v1 or 2v1 scenario

Yeah my group and I timed out a few teams.if you ring out and execute team members then go to the center of the stage they have to come engage or get timed out.

I played as nobushi most of the time
The poke/bleed, space runaway style is perfect for me.
I think once I got the hang of her it was crazy I won almost 20 duels in a row.

Nobu is still bearable, PKs are just annoying. Every time I get grabbed x bleed, I die a little inside >_>

Played over the weekend
Nobu unblockable kick can be hit confirmed and certain characters can’t punish after dodging the kick. Any unblockable being dodged should be able to be punished everytime with atleast a light
I think if you completely drain your stamina mid fight you should not be able to sprint or roll

Not sure if you can do something to get out of it midway but PK grab and stab is way op

It’s funny they list nobu and PK as hard but they are legit the easiest to gimmick out wins

Game was pretty solid to me from the beta. And I have a group of homies who buying day 2 so if I ever decide to dive in I will have some folks to play it.

If i do decide to buy it I will prob wait awhile, because I dont trust Ubisoft enough, and games like can be ruined depending on how shit is handled after launch with patches, confent and etc.

But game was pretty fun and cool to play

@Froztey - gimme advise on Warlord

I wanna use that gigantic fucker.
Do I just block and use quick swipes?

I practice countering with direction+light attack and direction+heavy parry when they try to attack with half or less stamina
harass with a mix of headbutt stab and guard break
learn the timing of the uninterruptible heavy attack

What are you using to confirm into kick? None of her lights into kick jail so I’m getting stepped by anyone who actually knows how to fight a Nobushi.

I meant confirm after kick
so nobu can do a hit into kick and if the kick gets sidestepped/dodged, nobu can still recover and block afterwards against certain characters
if the kick hits nobu can confirm into the poison lunge
I was saying that any unblockable should be punished atleast by a light if dodged

depends on character i thought though alot of people dont step cause they want to get started so fast they wont observe
i admit ill mash the string against raiders who wanna swing if they avoid my strings cause they are too slow to do shit about it.
alot of people dont observe though

things like 3 hit string no comboing unless second hit lands

hidden stance is actually the thing you need to look out for
even though its inconsistent on controller cause sometimes the down input switches guards if its not perfect
that shit dodges EVERYTHING and can be cancelled into a shit load of stuff

no you just go for headbutt all day and watch your opponent squirm because it has no tell and you can’t react to it

well, a little stamina drain while running wouldn’t hurt. though battles of survival shouldn’t be rushed. most players play responsibly and don’t abuse stamina, eventually players will learn running away in a 1v2, 1v3 or 1v4 isn’t gonna result in a loss anyways unless they turn the battle to their favor, or at least make a last stand.

honestly the days playing closed beta and open beta, very very few matches resulted in a time over or a draw for that matter. there are few idiots that think running out the timer when outnumbered or 1v1 is gonna do anything for the team, well yea, a draw and prolong the match, though those situations are rare and most are there to fight and don’t wanna look like a coward when the round results are pretty clear. unless they have a plan to get them off a cliff/hazard, or get a power up, they should stand their ground.

man… I wish Domination had more to it. Like I wanted a game like for honor but way more fleshed out combat on the grand scale of things.

Having finally got some playtime on this game, I’m not too sure how I feel about it. It feels very middle of the road on everything right now. On the more gamey side of it, with content like Dominion, it’s just a very poorly and sloppily designed mode that just kind of leads you running around accomplishing little of anything. It ceases to have any sort of nuance or complexity to it. The mode as a whole would do well to have more options in what you can do, and what can happen. Mook enemies are worthless, and since the opponent cannot in anyway build up a stronger force in mid by maybe acquiring actual NPC controlled generals or some such, it really is just a scramble around and capture the points while trying not to get ganked and ganking others. It’s a glorified survival mode right now.

My brother brought up this point and I tend to agree, and that’s that Dominion might’ve been or a mode in general might be something more akin to Dynasty Warriors, where there are generals, armies, and objectives which are constantly changing. Bringing players in on this as well could create a pretty interesting game where the PvP with players is great, and the side stuff actually amounts to something. You might be better off ignoring players/NPCs in one area and accomplishing a specific goal on the map first. As it is right now, the game beyond simple 1v1s is pretty… lifeless. It needs a goal. People may say the game is focused on PvP and 1v1s, but if that’s the case, why bother including a mode that really is (for lack of a better word) half-assed?

Far as the combat itself goes, I do find it pretty enjoyable, it’s about what I was expecting. It’s like a 3rd person Chivalry, that is a bit more clunky due to the lack of free control over your character. Still, I think it controls fine for what it is, but target based combat always lends itself poorly to multiple foes and fluid actions. In regards to strict 1v1s, they seem very fun, but as Froztey has posted about and as I worried about before, I think this game may well have a very abuseable and simple meta. I mostly played Conquerer, and I think within a few hours of playing, despite doing well enough, I feel like I had devised in my head exactly how I would beat every single Conquerer that I came across, which was to just wait for him to attack and react appropriately. Perhaps I am over estimating people’s reaction times, but his moves aren’t fast, and he can’t feint without burning pretty much everything. This strategy to me anyway, feels like it’s more or less the ideal in this game as a whole, most entirely due to parries being too rewarding.

Comparing it to Chivalry, a game which only defense was to parry, and to games like Bushido Blade, parrying shouldn’t really lead to guaranteed damage or at least a heavy or free guard break. If you want something akin to that, it should be a result of maybe a “perfect” parry timing which is very strict. Bushido Blade 2 had two different parries, done by pressing the same or opposite attack button as your opponent in time with their attack – while this obvious was easily abused once you knew the attacks, it was still a variance. Within the context of For Honor itself, it seems very weird to me that some characters are built to counter opponents, and have moves devoted to it, but parrying nets the same reward pretty universally. This makes me question their purpose.

Warden is a good example, where he can get a pretty huge damage parry against high attacks – I thought that was great design, it gives you a high damage counter and forces your opponent to limit themselves for fear of taking high damage.

I even question if guard breaks as a whole should lead to direct damage universally. Maybe it’s enough that slamming them into a wall leads to a heavy? Shrugs Who knows, this game has some interesting things in it, but I wonder if it’s base mechanical limitations are in the right place or not, and I hope they are willing to tinker with things. I will now proceed to list random thoughts…

  • Parrying might be better suited to gaining advantage as opposed to gaining free damage. Enough time to land a perhaps unparryable (by universal means) heavy, which can lead into whatever your character’s fancy is.
  • Parrying may also be better served as a stamina drain option as well.
  • Are throw distances too short? Too long? Should it be easier or harder to throw people into walls / off the side?
  • Are there even enough options on a per character basis or even a universal one?
  • Is it good design that feints are limited to heavies only? This is contrary to Chivalry for me and had me questioning it. It would inherently make parrying more risky provided…
  • The Break-Feint OS needs to be fixed 100%
  • I’m surprised binding throw break to a wheel or turbo works, since in my experiences, I found mashing by hand never gave me throw breaks – I had to time it correctly, same with some chains.
  • Does throw breaking someone who has their back to the wall stumble them like it does if you throw them into it? I feel like it should, if it doesn’t. (In my experience it never did)
  • Holding active attacks (delay it) to mess with people who are parry greedy too broken of a concept or just what we need?
  • Revenge too good? I hate comeback mechanics, but I am okay with this building by blocking, but must it be built when being hit? I think not.
  • Revenge’s temp health gain is maybe a bit overkill?
  • Dominion is really shallow, but this game devoted a whole loot system for it, even bothering to have modellers make new gear looks for it. So why is there not more to it?
  • God I love the animation quality.
  • I think the Warden might be the first video game knight to actually hold his/her sword by the blade when not using it. How properly medieval of him/her.
  • Barring the stupid “waiting” message when someone leaves or lags out from a game, the game’s netcode is really nice.
  • Why is this one of those games where if you drop below 60 FPS it drops you to 30FPS? I hate those. One stage had a glitched texture on it and it kept dropping me to 30 FPS when I looked at it, haha.

As a whole I do want to get more time with the game. I only got like eight hours of it, and I’m certainly interested, but I also think it could very easily go south pretty quickly if not properly maintained.

You might want to disable v-sync

First thing I do in any game, so not the issue. Course I only played it once for one long session. I’ll have to force V-sync off next time I play it, just to be sure. There was one other game that did this, usually a console port (for obvious reasons), but I can’t remember what game it was.

I’m gonna take your list and express how I feel about the game and it’s balancing as well. Take in mind everything I say caters towards only 1v1 and 2v2, as Dominion and 4v4 play completely differently.

  • Parries are your be-all-end-all in terms of both attack and defence, they give you TOO much and they’re going to dictate the meta and which heroes are truly viable based on their ability to avoid being parried, i.e Warden, Warlord, Orochi. If you’re a slow hero, you’re probably low tier. They need to have stricter timing by a considerable margin or stop giving players free Guard Break into heavy. Feinting attacks to bait parries, making sure you only use your fastest openers to avoid being parried and so on. The only way I can see to fix this is to make it so you can only GB post-parry after very few attacks from each hero, maybe their slowest attack, adjust what heroes can do after a GB, maybe the removal of GB into heavy or lastly as you say implement a perfect parry system.

  • More stamina drain options would be welcomed. This is one reason why the Warlord is so S tier, his moves take little stamina and it’s impossible to get him drained.

  • I feel like throws are in a perfect spot right now, they differ per hero FYI.

  • I think the options are there, but what we need is less focus on the two big ones(Unreactable attacks and parries). A lot of unbreakable(orange glow) attacks are straight up useless, and the Kensei is designed around them. They’re just instant parry bait atm, and they suck.

  • I don’t want lights to be feintable as of right now where things like the parry+feint OS exist. This would make the already best characters better. They could feint their fastest attack, and then feint into a second fast attack. Warden would be able to do top light(feint) > zone attack. That would just further establish him as one of the games best.

  • Yes, it 100% needs to be fixed. Easy fix too. Make feint attacks require a B input before the attack is pressed, that makes them feint attacks from frame 1 of start-up instead of after start-up, and make feint attacks have no parry property.

  • I play on a controller so…tehehe.

  • It doesn’t. The only thing throw breaking can do with the environment is push someone off of a ledge.

  • Delay attacks…as opposed to a “delay” input, I’d prefer unique attacks that delay. So things like the Orochi’s backstep+R2? Let’s say the Kensei got a side heavy delay attack on a unique input. THAT would probably be incredibly welcome for a couple of characters. I would not want Assassins to have this though, their options are already too fucking wide of a scale in comparison to Vanguard heroes.

  • Revenge is fine, it just makes 2v1 a possibility rather than a slow painful death. The hyper armour is 100% required.

  • Revenge is fine.

  • Dominion isn’t my cup of tea, I much prefer 1v1 and 2v2 because they feel a lot more strategic in their combat and you can still win the 2v1. I’d love a 3v3 game-type as well.

  • Animation quality is indeed fantastic.

  • Warden is also top tier. Coincidence? I think NOT.

  • For P2P it’s fantastic.

  • Ubisoft.