Lp. palm wouldn’t connect off your theoretical combo because of the pushback. Mp. palm also wouldn’t connect because it doesn’t offer enought hitstun. Street11 had the best answer for this already. Look up the previous posts above.
The only problem with doing it streets way is you lose the damage of one or the other or you weaken both.
They won’t make both hits do the same damage as they do now.
Yeah, it would be quite similiar to Sagat Lk but only more damage. As of now it seems to be the most favorable theory for Mk.
Probably too late in the game for that to happen because you would need a new type of animation for the throw counter, plus there is the issue of it that becomes Gouken’s new throw tech that does damage… but that’s a really cool idea.
Gouken has gotten plenty of love on AE2012 already though. No one should get their hopes up for more. There are other characters that need love too that didn’t get as much attention with the balance changes.
I’m pretty sure the reason we want cl.st.MK is not because of damage. It’s because of its speed, range and pushing Gouken forward to make sure cancellable special stays in range. If it becomes usable in any range, expect a damage nerf either way.
I mainly want it cuz I want a multi-hitting normal mid-range that’ll beat out any focus attempts or focus backdash. Normals cancelled into any special but flip and LK/EX Tatsu tend to trade or straightout lose, sometimes even when cancelled into LP Palm (and its range is so horrendous that it sometimes won’t connect period), and Gouken doesn’t have a 2-hit fb to break focus. IMHO, his focus breaking game is one of the worst in this game, and I feel he needs help in that department.
And Sadly he is still lacking fundamentally in many key areas. His current “buffs” aren’t enough to move him up the tiers.
I’m less worried about damage on cl.st.mk and more worried about damage on far st mk vs adon and gief and any other character this would be an amazing poke against. That’s my main concern. If cl.st.mk was 50 dmg then st.mk would probably be 30 or 40 damage. That’s a lot of lost damage in the Adon or Gief matchup.
I was talking about a theory based on Lp. palm. I know most likely it won’t happen but it will help us out on our FA breaking game. I posted it already but I’ll repost it again for your sake of looking at my idea of it.
Since Capcom doesn’t want Lp. Palm to connect at the tip of cr.lk in it’s current state, how about a compensation of no knockdown but for the ability to move again and speed adjustment to connect at the apex of cr. lk? and it will only cause knockdown on CH. You guys think that’s a good trade off? We will have a close range anti - focus move for Gouken.
Let’s say theoretically they did adjust it Lp. Palm (connects at the tip of cr.lk) this is its changes
Regular hit: no knockdown(similiar to Ae Zangief G.hand changes and first hit of Ex palm)
Counter hit: Current state of Dash palms
Do you guys get it?
I know majority of us wan’t Lp. Palm to move, but at its current state I find it horrendous.
This seems like a fair trade off to me. What do you think?
It would also be a great tool for FADC combos with its greater damage than Hadou( similiar to Oni’s running slash in FADC combos.) That’s if the pushback isn’t too far.
Goukens changes are like a bad relationship!
Denjin Changes: Nice change honey and should help our relationship in areas (kiss on the cheek)
**Palm setup change: **Whenever you give me things honey something else has to be lost! You should have never taken it away in the first place but made it better so we can last.
**Kongo so called buff: **You have taken the pills and you still can’t get it up and times.
**Hit confirm so called fix: ** Your still not hitting the spot at times honey!
**Overhead buff: ** The enhancement kinda worked but your still too slow in bed. Stop being lazy
**Super buff: **Honey we need that money to pay our bills and feed our children!
**Far Standing HP and Standing HK active frame buff: **Hmm your lasting longer hmhmhmhm
**Denjin lever spin buff: ** I have faith this will help our relationship one way or another!
I feel dirty… Now do you feel that gouken is getting love! I think capcom is cheating on him lol.
^ lol
I was imagining more on the line of 50*50 or damage distribution like Sagat’s st.HK (there’s no law that a medium strength normal must not do more than 100 dmg xD). But yeah Capcom is goddamn unexpectable even if they feel like doing it. The safest way would be making it command normal (preferably f+MK) like you said.
It depends on how they adjust the frames and the frame advantage afterwards, but as long as start-up isn’t slower, I like it. Something tells me armour break status might be gone if this is the case.
I agree. Problem is Blanka, Deejay, Guy, Oni, Cammy, Gen and a whole host of “mid-tier” character players are all saying the same thing.
What do you mean? doesn’t hitting someone that is initiating a focus attack count as a CH? I wanted to keep it’s current Dash palm attributes on CH so it would break Focus moves.
Because people love to exaggerate.
yep, and then it undermines the characters who DO have it bad.
From my observation in most armour break moves, it seems like Capcom made sure so that each of them has at least one of the following properties:
- It has a long start-up (more than 15f)
- It doesn’t move
- It knocks down on non-counter hit
- It doesn’t knock down on counter hit
- It’s a dive kick special
- It’s a Super or an Ultra.
- It has a slow movement
- It is unsafe on block
I was just agreeing with your statement of “most likely it won’t happen”.
In all honesty, I have no freaking idea what Capcom looks “good enough” to make a change.
Most complainers’ characters were either considered top tier in AE, or got buffs in areas that they will not utilize anyways because there are already better options. In the latter, I still think none of them would actually move up the tiers, but Gouken needs buffs more badly than them.
Yeah, that was my first thought to Street’s method. I’d rather keep both and have each do their current damage. Because mashing both into MK would just result in a really low-damage punish or a really low-damage AA.
Here’s how I would balance Gouken:
before I get down to my possibly entirely wrong suggestions, I’ll mention I’m comparing frama data to Akuma, as they share play-styles and Gouken is obscenely outclassed
[LIST=1]
[]LP Palm hit-box extending slightly beyond his palm (just like his MP and HP Palms); MP Palm same as Vanilla LP Palm; HP Palm 10% farther distance than current MP Palm; LP Palm -2 on block, MP Palm -3 on block, HP Palm -4 on block; all Palms push a guarding opponent back to cr. LK/ cr. MP distance; MP and HP Palms gain 15% speed boost; damage changed to 100 for LP Palm, 120 for MP Palm, 140 for HP Palm, 160 for EX Palm
[]All Tatsus lock the opponent
[]Better vertical hit-box on initial hit of Ultra 1
[]Better vertical hit-box on Flip Throw
[]Improved range on cr. LK
[]Cl. MK changed to command-normal Forward+MK
[]HK changed to command-normal Forward+HK
[]Ability to combo LP/ MP/ HP/ EX Kongo into one and other - akin to multi-parries in SFIII: Third Strike
[]Flip Slide recovery changed to match Akuma’s
[]Jumping Tatsu recovery after landing changed to 14, rather than 20
[/LIST]
Additionally, I would improve many of his normals, as well as increasing the damage - cr. HP has lost its power since Vanilla, and now deals less damage andhas a worse hit-box than Akuma’s cr. HP
I consider the Palm buffs to be very important, because he needs some offense. As is, he is often forced to run away to the far end of the screen, and throw pretty harmless fireballs, when under pressure. He has absolutely no retaliations - IE offense of his own.
Another thing that’s really, freaking irritating, is that Oni has come along, and in true Akuma-form he has leeched the form of an existing character, but even he is made a better character than Gouken is. Isn’t this getting ridiculous?
They need reduce cr. lk’s recovery frames, we need something to be able to do safe pokes on wake up and not get hit by random ultras.
Some Japanese guys seemed to have requested for cl.st.MK coming out as a command normal in location test survey.