If you could force people into making mistakes that get maxed punished as often as you get put into positions to guess with the reward being a max punish on your ass, I’d be fine with that.
Does that makes sense?
Gouken is put into a position too many times a round where it can lead to a max punish on him and he doesn’t get to put people into those positions often enough.
Easiest example is counters where you get counterhit on a jump in even though you did HP counter or where you wakeup EX tatsu only to whiff and not be able to FADC or if you wakeup EX flip and get full comboed when you land… Basically everytime you get knocked down or try to get someone off of you.
I have to confess that me neither. He is still my favourite character, the one I have the most fun with, but when I’m competing I really don’t feel confident enough. I have to switch to some other character. =/ Sad.
I still feel that LP palm could be one of our main weapons. Praying every single day that this will be addressed in 2012.
If they fix it, it would combo from cr.LK and cr.MP at max range. (Better yet f it was like a tiger knee, that would hit through the move).
Combine that with the fast startup and invincibility frames, we have ourselves a reversal! (I don’t know why Reipin didn’t like the idea of invincibility from frame 1, but still, I think it would be one of our best options).
Just for the LP palm.
It’s the same idea you mentioned earlier, with LP Palm connecting from more distance. Maybe if it had 2 activation distances or any other option we listed before.
Since we wouldn’t use it to travel through fireballs as the other palms, the invincibility frames (that are already there) could be shifted for the start of the move. I don’t think it will be super powerfull because it’s hitboxes are only on his hands, wouldn’t prevent crossups for example.
I don’t see why we couldn’t have invincibility in the startup of a special move without EX.
Kinda late, but with Bonchan getting beaten by Infiltration, did anyone else see the exact same thing when Daigo got blown up by Wildcat’s Hakan? This is more of a stretch, but it was a similar deal at EVO this year with Poongko and Latif destroying everyone. It’s just the simple fact that knowning a matchup can really be that critical when it comes down to it, and clearly Bonchan was shooting in the dark; Tokido, on the other hand…hell no
Tokido didn’t need to shoot in the dark. He could do his basic Akuma and beat Gouken.
If LP palm was like a tiger knee that would make it ridiculous. The point of no invincibility is so that it can’t be used as a wake up move. You’d stop throws and normals on wakeup and if it was changed to a tiger knee no one could throw fireballs at you or even play footsies unless it was made seriously unsafe.
Crossups you could just use auto-correct EX tatsu or kongo.
How about: LP parry counters from mid hurt-box down, MP counters mid hurt-box and up, HP is a fake parry that either ends in the attack animation regardless of being attack but doesn’t actually counter, or doesn’t cancel nor perform the attack but can be cancelled.
The last option might even open up some crazy Makoto or C.Viper combo options…
Exactly my point! Isn’t his wake up his trouble? Why wouldn’t you want to make it better? That would give him a good option, therefore is a bad thing?
How is that different from a Canon Spike or a Dragon Punch? Why should only Gouken have to guess? If i try a throw or a normal attack I can eat a wake up DP in the face. It should be a bet from both parts. If I wakeup with LP, just block and punish it.
Wouldn’t that work?
Gouken is designed to have bad wakeup, I don’t necessarily want him to have great wakeup. Gouken players know how to block and tech, unlike say a viper player who just spams ex seismo on wkaeup because they can’t take pressure.
Why can’t Gouken have something that’s ridiculously good to the point of almost being broken? It seems that many other characters have something that causes fear or at least make your opponent respect your space. Gouken has non of that. And it’s so obvious when you play other people! People treat him like Rodney Dangerfield!
Yes. You have to give some characters stuff like a horrid reversal game to keep the design differentiable. Theres a very specific character design, and giving Gouken a good wakeup game would completly screw his ones over. Boost his strenghts, give him additional options which fit his playstyle, but don’t change something that fundamental. Imagine if Gief was bottom tier, would you say “Giefs main problem is people zoning him to no end, so let’s give him a fireball”?
The lp version would go less than half screen and the invincibility would be just on its startup, the first 3 frames or so. It it had something like 9 frame startup, 2/3 of the startup is not invincible. LP Palm would still have less range than Canon Spike (that range is ridiculous), and would ONLY hit straight. You can jump over it, you can block, you can grab or you could even JAB him out of it like any other palm.
Banishing Flat says hi; but seriously, the right solutions aren’t immediately obvious. With Gouken in perspective, I think it’s been clear that Capcom designed him for zoning and punishing, but they half-assed both sides of him in that regard. Aside from the tweaking to his normals, they either need to buff the tatsu as a reliable anti-air, or do something to the EX flip to give him a “bat outta hell” runaway option when he’s cornered. As it is now, if your opponent’s pressuring well, you’re boned unless you get a lucky break with a Kongoshin.