no way is infiltration using gouken again.
edit: yea he’s using akuma
this thread seems GREAT.
As soon as he use Gouken I knew he will get blow up, and then he did. Tokido actually know the match up. Pretty much leave him no chance at all in the second match. It wasn’t even close.
yea not even trying to talk down on him but he got destroyed! That rushdown was insane! He took advantage of goukens weakness in full force.
Goodness that last with Tokido. Just heartbreaking.
The problem is, it doesn’t matter if its me, some day one Gouken, or a high tier Gouken. The match replay would have looked exactly the same. Difference being replay length with better blocking. This is what we need to fix in AE 2012!
Anyone have vids?
Im sure archives will be up soon or tommorow.
Apparently ONO was watching the Canada cup and I hope he saw first hand how much ass AE is. I also hope he saw gouken get destroyed be tokido. Capcom I hope your listening to us.
[media=youtube]yJZvGLIj2tg[/media]
Heres the Infiltration Gouken vs Tokido.
[media=youtube]Tj9OPH_8WwU[/media]
vs Bonchan Sagat.
Infiltration did decently… But Tokido got the groove going and even if they had more sets, I think the more and more of the rounds would start looking like the last one.
I wanna say something to you GOUKEN based on your comments. In no way do I mean to insult or be taken as an aggresive jerk. Nor do I expect your normal responses to my shit when I come off as an unknowing unexperienced scrub!: “Well , in high level play…” or " all you do is dive kick sweep…" blah blah blah…
I merely wish to challenge your states of mind. Bottom line.
Its just , I have this thread Im looking at , with folks in here seemingly ready to embrace the use of the old man by ASIAN players as a validation of sorts?
Correct me if im wrong , but…
Is it not easy to see Gouken as a sleeper powerhouse with enough mixup potential as well as perhaps THE most solid crossup game a la: j.lk , j.mk , j.hk , j.hp. coming from the most balanced jump arc , as well as setups from hard knock utilizing THAT jump arc, with a flip dive kick that stuffs or trades with nearly everything in the game. Save the U2’s of course in super.
I have never been one of the dudes that accepts Goukens “apparent” flaws as being the cause of his “inherent wackness” or being a forgotten character which was “intentionally created to fail”. I have always contested that Gouken can only be as good as the player. Bottom line. I however do know there are some aspects of his , which if improved would solidify certain gaps many have grown to dislike.
What you may have seen from Infiltration was perhaps that blind confidence many of us feel from time to time using Gouken, based on our understanding of the character , plus our track records.
When combined with significant matchup knowledge , brilliant knowledge of his vortex as well as execution of OS’s being on point, there isnt any reason we we should paint ourselves into a corner anymore right? After 2012 this should be a resounding YES after all the lobbying some have done to change the character. (I dont know who or which consortium got Super Lpalm taken away from us by the AE version, which many hate currently , while others have adjusted accordingly.) I think all of us fear the absence of Hpalm in relation to angled hados, as this changes alot of game ender situations for me personally. I would like to thank the sissy or sissies who thought we needed to replace Hpalm.
Can I ask tho… did those that saw Hpalm as ineffective, also forsee that dash>mpalm was the “new” option for angeld fireballs? I know we will do dash>mpalm now along with our angled FB’s for the same effect, and yes in retrospect it DOES go farther than Hpalm after training on it.
ANyhow heres the quotes I wanted to speak to…
Why cant it just be, “damn dudes got some mind games w the old man”?(no I havent seen the footage/matches)
Dont YOU believe in YOUR Gouken as much?
Why cant it just be that Gouken is sick in ways you have yet to discover? Being able to play there and just be"GOUKEN" is what any of us would have done. No? Put any of us in a TOP 32 or 16 and would we do better than his Gouken? I say yes. Dont you? If not , are you then wiser and I am
ignorant? What did his reflexes show you that you have been unable to master? Does he know more about the character than you? (No I havent seen the matches)
Dont try to deny the fact that some “feel” differently about situations than others. Perhaps he sees something many dont? Perhaps our knowledge suprasses his? Dont ALL Gouken walk into shit thinkin “yeah mofo, ur done!” ?
As Gouken players shouldnt this forum be the spear4heading forefront as well as the home of the confident Ansatsuken masters? It is we who possess the knowledge of " Assassination Fist", who laugh in the face of frame data and flowcharts! While we know he has assumed deficincies when compared to the cast, shouldnt we have found a way around falling for the same shit over and over and over and over and over again?
If the best of us here collaborated and fool proofed the fool whos proved nothing , who is yet dying to prove something to the fools who know nothing , cant you see that we would be ahead of the frikkin game ? If in many ways individually we are already authorities on certain aspects of the character?
Dude didnt know shit about cr.lk or cr.lk>tatsu vs vortex , also he never attacked akumas wakeup with flip kicks…
He did seem to have an idea about baiting the jump back HP with Gouken , yet he seemed to miss the reads or not be confident enough about them, the whole jump in jump out thing, setups for escaping., Some of it is there he just doesnt know enough about Gouken to stare down Tokido like that!
.Additionally his wakeup EX flip looked late as FUUUUUCK! also his jump back HK to avoid them dbl fb’s just seemed early and or too nervous to use correctly, that shit should hit everytime he jumped back with dj. HK!
Not to mention at the end of the first fight , a wakeup ex flip would have beat those standing shorts , he coulda had him!!! also an auto corrected ex flip from wakeup woulda setup into backthrow instead of suck-cumming to a basic ass ambiguous j.mk from Akuma? cmon dude!
The master has been ready.
Perhaps it is just we who have not been?
Speak about it…
Because he only played 2out of 4 set of Gouken successfully, the 2 he won was against someone who NEVER focused even one fireball, never crossed up once, never even bother throw him once while having plenty of chance. Falls for every single Gouken gimmick every time and obviously have no idea about the match up. The 2 set he lost, he get brutelly destroyed, it wasn’t even close. He nearly get double perfected.
Whether he can play Gouken better then I can makes no different. The match up shows clear as night and day, as soon as the opponent know the match up. Gouken doesn’t even have a chance in high level play. The only reason someone would lose to him is because they don’t have the match up knowledge. And like I said, he just pulled it out to surprise people.
Just because this is Gouken forum doesn’t mean we have no grasp of reality. Be as confident as you want to, but not knowing or ignoring your own weakness make you weaker, not stronger.
Like I said blah blah blah high level play, I knew it ! Why didnt anyone tell him his Gouken wouldnt last in high level play? he probably just believed in HIMSELF, cant you do the same without an srk from wakeup??? I didnt say no grasp of reality. Ever. At all. Im saying none of Goukens weaknesses showed , although Tokido took him down, he didnt have as much knowledge as some of us here. The top 5 here could have taken out Tokido based on the replay I saw. Not 1 cr.lk to interupt ANY of that flowchart bs. Opportunities for EX flip on wakeup , as well as pressuring AK’s wakeup with dive kicks leads to some sick counter setups, or didnt you see those either? Are we talking about the same character? Where did we hear about cr.lk vs vortex palm pressure anyways? This Gouken was in the right place , but in the wrong hands BOTTOM LINE!~
And here is the video folks… (for those of us sitting in the cheap seats)
[media=youtube]yJZvGLIj2tg[/media]
This shit is depressing.
Hey, I was at Canada Cup and I played Bonchan in pools. I’m pretty sure he only had a basic understanding of the match up, ie, dealing with with Gouken’s demon flips to get in. He fell for a lot of demon flip safe jumps as well as dash punching through fire balls. I lost to him due to a combination of his amazing reactions, stupid execution errors, and some questionable choices for some of my mix ups 
If it were the case then I would have said such, Infiltration knows how to play gouken, make no mistake. He played well, but unfamiliarity was on his side because bonchan clearly does not know the matchup. I’ve already said my piece, I have to look at the match with a critical eye and while the fact may sort of undermine infiltrations play, it’s more of an indictment of people reluctance to even play gouken in jpn hence little experience. As for the rest of your tangent, I’m going to disregard it because I’ve been through this before with you and you won’t accept anyones answer so there is no point. Also, having an asian player mess with gouken does not validate him, the fact that everyone gets up in arms over a gouken being played in the tourney speaks volumes and is a better indication of his standing tier wise. Watch the vids.
The lack of Gouken exposure in tourneys helps all of us. Watched the TOKIDO vid , dude wasnt AS strong as some Gouken Ive seen vs Ak. He missed ALOT of shit. I ask again why no cr.lk to interupt vortex? it wouldve worked in 85% of waht I watched, I mean shit even dj.mp coulda got him to back off , he misstimed alot of the escape baiting im accustomed to. Additionally with wakeup EX flip being hated on so much and misunderstood , I clearly saw multiple chances to use it for flip grab or for backthrow opps an against the grain approach im sure, I saw where it could have worked tho.
Dude I don’t even know what your argument is. Just go ahead and do you, man.
Yee haaaaw Gouken kicks ass@! I wasnt tryin to hate on anyone just challenge my brethren to hear me out. Just trying to get some new insight blah blah blha
As much fun and hype it was to see Gouken in a major tournament, once they get him knocked down, it’s over.
AND he got lucky he didn’t get any whiffed tatsus (just the EX blocked one).
It’s not like he had a good chance. The surprise was like someone switching over to Dan after getting to top 8.
“No, are you crazy? Come on, stop fooling around!” The reaction Gouken should get was: “Oh, that will be interesting to watch”.
If they fix some of the issues, like LP palm connecting from at least 2 light attacks, tatsu not droping people out and that kind of stuff then we can have a chance.
As a matter of fact, I don’t! As much I like Gouken, I am absolute ass with him (anyone who’s played me on PC can attest to that!) Gouken in the right hands can be absolutely sick, but he still has too many shortcomings that keep him from having wider exposure. The fact that an Asian player was playing him didn’t cross my mind once. It was the fact that anyone was playing him at a really high level tourney at all! And he did good, despite the beatdown he got later on! Gouken is just too risky to play as if you have something on the line. I would say he’s the riskiest character in the game; just look at what a missed/blocked anything from him gets you! Especially compared to Akuma, who has low health, but has insane offensive capabilites and reliable reversals.