EX flip beats shoryuken for a max punish.
No SRK is not the reason why people don’t play Gouken.
People played plenty of Abel in Super and he had no SRK.
You simplify his game way too much. It’s not just run away, toss hado and try to counter everything. Beating Gouken is not also just as simple as waiting for counters all day and punishing them.
Gouken has several ways to Chip an opponent out.
-U1 on their wake up
-Meaty U2 on their wake up
-hado > palm frame frap (will be even better when we get super lp palm back)
-safe jump dive kick > lp > lp palm for chip (you get the chip damage from the dive kick and the palm)
-cr. fp > EX Palm for the chip win
-EX Flip at point blank range on their wake up, and what ever they do will miss as long as they don’t have an air grab and their name isn’t Cammy. If they do nothing, they set themselves up for a dive kick chip out, and if they try to reversal out they whiff.
The main problem with Gouken aside from him having SHIT for a good reversal, is that he isn’t a one trick pony. Something that is evident in every other character. I can’t tell you the amount of “strong” players that I’ve faced that only do the same 1 or 2 combo’s and set up the entire match, no matter how many matches I play them. Some characters just have some brain dead set ups, and get free 50/50’s where in most cases they turn into 66/33 in their favor b/c Gouken doesn’t have a strong wake up reversal.
If they changed it so that after inputting the Kongo command the parry animation activates and functions as normal if hit, but if he isn’t hit after the current duration he performs the attack animation without armor, that would be pretty sick.
On block it leaves him at 0 frames, or a few negative, and does a little chip, on hit it sends them flying like normal, on whiff he has X number of recovery frames. He could be thrown initially, punished for a whiff, guessing game for blocking.
That would mean the explosion has to be blockable. No thanks.
So Fei Long U2 is immune to reversal armor break or am I on crack? Was this changed in AE?
No, in the scenario I described the explosion would only happen if they hit you, the parry would be no different then. The move could only be blocked if they DON’T attack you, then it just comes out as a normal attack but only after the normal duration of the parry.
Basically, if the opponent attacks, the parry is the same. If they don’t you would insert the attack animation in between the parry’es active frames and the recovery frames.
What exactly is the downside to this thing if it is even on block or even slight negative frames? It’s fine the way it is. Really it should be a whole body counter, every punch is the same thing. Full body counter, slightly longer recovery on a non-activated parry. While we’re dreaming we will go ahead and make it non-breakable as well.
Waaay better than chip damage. If you guys want to make it better give back the 180 damage. It’s a freaking guess with low reward. At least the low and medium versions should do 180. EX and high versions 150 because theoretically won’t involve so much guessing in the patch. Want to buff it? Make it non-breakable or able to combo afterwards without meter. Then we’re talking.
I have tried all these things hado palm and the rest and some times they work. this was a suggestion forum so I added a thought. sometimes i dont use the right term per say so. When they jump in on you it would be nice to have something like the rest cast thats all and dont give me the Cr. HP ether you know what i mean ex tasu is good if you have meter all the rest start up to slow and leave you open big time thanks to the crappy recover for them
LK tatsu starts up at the same speed as EX tatsu, difference is it doesn’t suck in so you have to be careful with it. It has upper body invincibility.
In a pinch cr.mk and cr.hp are just fine. It’s sad to see you dismiss two excellent anti-air attacks when some characters wish they had something akin to it. Nevermind that you can cancel both into a fireball or any special you like on an anti-air hit.
It’s really a shame that everyone focuses so much on getting a 3 frame invincible reversal like a DP. There are 39 characters in this game. We’re not the ONLY character with shitty wake up or lacking a 3 frame DP.
Armor break ain’t going to happen, hell, neither is what Matt suggested. As for the downside of even or slight negative frames on block for this hypothetical change to Kongo, that would be the inactive part of the parry.
It would be a punish to the opponent baiting the Kongo but failing to punish the bait. The have the option of throwing you in the parry animation, and the start up of the non parry attack animation, or use an armor breaking move on you, or an Ultra or some such that has invincibility to beat the attack. If they sit there like a lump they deserve the reset to even frames.
We still get baited, we still get punished for whiffing. It would just make the timing and spacing more difficult for the opponent, and improve the risk reward for Gouken a bit.
Or instead of leaving them close at whatever frames, on block it could push back to just out of sweep range. That would reset the situation but without the threat of back throw into Ultra.
Not that it matters. Shit isn’t going to happen.
I just started forcing myself into using cr.MK and it is pretty sweet. Still don’t know the ins and outs of it but I like it.
For some damn reason I have it ingrained in my head that Gouken’s cr.HP is like Makoto’s. Leads to all sorts of problems.
cr.mk will stuff things that cr.hp will not. It will stuff almost any normal jumping attack that a Gen would use on you (I’ve never had a Gen in a match stuff it), and it stuffs shoto j.lk (they go to that when you use cr.hp too much). It’s really a big test and you need to learn your normals. Just don’t sleep on how useful your 4 frame c.mk is.
Lol, fucking Maks cr hp. I pretty much had it pounded in my head that cr hp is a sweep when I was messing with her.
If you guys had to make a top 7 list of the most important things that you want fixed in v.2012, what would it be? (I couldn’t narrow it down to a top 5…lol)
I def don’t want B+HK as a command normal as you lose kara back throw.
You guys want to start making bets on the extra changes (If any) We will receive this month loolol.
I bet 200$ That we get nothing. Who dares to bet with me lol
I bet that they somehow slide in a NERF!
I feel Denjin’s charging time is going to be reduced and nj.LP will get 2 more active frames.
Denjin really needs wall bounce after an air hit. Really.
With the current charge time it is impossible to ever land a full one, even off crumple stun.