Ok. Then capcom can just not have my money ( you know, the thing they really need right now?). I’ll just go and give it to someone else, like Mike_Z.
Could it be that you posted while I was typing?
Indeed that is a potential point of confusion, and another argument in favor of using said quote feature(which I see you have now figured out. Good for you! 
).
I thought your comment was directed at me…?
Do you know why many new players struggle to do b&bs? It’s not necessarily that the combos are too hard, but that they lack the mental focus to actually know what they want to start pressing when it’s time to do the combo. When it’s time to do their combo, they fumble on the buttons because they forgot what they wanted to do. Even if the special moves were single button presses, they’d still mess up the combo for this reason. This is an experience and a focus issue…if your mind isn’t in the right place, you shouldn’t be expecting to get rewarded well. You also shouldn’t be expecting to be ready to do everything you should be doing, if you lack the experience.
As for new players being unable to do specials and basic attacks…the only attacks I believe are unnecessarily difficult are pretzel motions, geese raging storms motions and just frame inputs.
There wasn’t anything nerd/geek/childish about being in the arcades in the 80s or 90s, Pong was a mainstream phenomenon in the 70s, so was a lot of NES games like SMB, Duck Hunt and others
Halo, GTAIII and Tomb Raider are much more associated with nerd/geek/childish people than Street Fighter II ever was.
The “dead period” of fighting games didn’t have anything to do with “no adaptation” and you can’t say that SFIV changed a thing in the SFII formula, it’s more SFII than Alpha or other newer Capcom games that provided an Auto Mode to attract “new players”, so according to you SFIV game was a success because of what? Blind luck?
Why a game with 1f links, FADC, Supers, Ultras, EXes, 720s, difficult motions that created such a high execution barrier and no tutorial to teach morons newer players how to play made such a success? Brand recognition? Only guys in their 30s bought the game? Kids who weren’t born when SFII was released? What happened to the running joke on SRK about 09ers??
If brand recognition alone was the reason for SFIV’s success, SFIII wouldn’t have tanked so hard in the late-90s
@kwyjibo You’re confusing the difficulty curve of the gameplay for execution. Execution is simply what’s required to do something. I.E perform an attack or move. In that regard Skullgirls is easy. Now doing so in a real match is the gameplay. And compared to games like UMVC3 or Blazblue Skullgirls is still easy as fuck. The majority of attacks are multiple hits, combine that with the absurd amount of hit stun and how lenient the timing for canceling normals in the game is and combos are a breez. Like a 40 hit combo is really not that hard. Take Ms.Fortune for example. s.lp<s.lp<c.lk<s.mp<s.mk< cancel into fiber upper<j.mk< cancel into ax claw< cancel into Furzerker Furrage. That’s a mere 9 button presses and you got a near 40 hit combo ( with her head off when super is done )
So 90s gamers sat all day in a non-existant training mode to learn how to play SFII? Man, you just don’t know what you’re talking about and you’re just embarassing yourself…
Yeah, that’s way easier than learning a 720 input for a move…
It just looks complicated in fighting game lingo. Actually doing it is pretty damn easy unless one has memory limitations. If you can remember a phone number this shouldn’t be hard. Sounds like you just have a beef with combo encentric fighters period. Don’t know what to tell yal
People in here lying to themselves about skullgirls. If you dont think that game has tight links, then you’re playing it at a low level.
How many times do I have to tell you that I’m talking about MODERN DAY FIGHTING GAMES? I dont give a shit about what people did in the fuckin’ 90s, cuz we do not live in the fuckin’ 90’s anymore.
I’m talking about today’s games. I’m pretty sure SF2 players didnt have to contend with ultra combos, focus attacks, red focus, or FADCs.
We sure didnt. We just had to figure everything else out without the help of tutorial videos or tech being dropped in our laps. Truly great times.
I would argue that new players may suffer from an information overload, due to having to learn everything at once, including the new mechanics. And even with all this information at their disposal (information not supplied by the game itself, I might add), new players still have trouble executing their moves.
They can know everything, but they cant do everything, and frankly, there is no argument to be made about 1-frame links, for example. They are bullshit. Why does it matter if I press a button 1/60th of a second as opposed to 2/60ths of a second? If I know the proper sequence of buttons I need to press, and I have the ability to press them quickly, why does it need to be so goddamn strict?
Yeah, but we’re talking about something that is basically essential to playing the game. My issue is with combo-centric fighters(thought I made that pretty clear before) because they require beginners to learn combos just to play at a basic level.
I just don’t see the logic in this. Why is it that asking someone to learn a half circle movement is unreasonable, but asking them to learn a combo that requires practicing the timing for 8 different inputs is just fine?
Well, those combos are really easy to do. SG is great in that you can kinda make your own combos. You can just press buttons and have a decent combo. Obviously practicing will yield better damaging combos, but it’s really easy to just hit buttons and get results.
Like for filia, you just do cr lp, cr lp, cr mk, cr hk, hairball, super. And if you’re feeling fancy, throw in an updo after the wall bounce. Super simple stuff.
Now compare that to a double half circle ultra. There is no reason for that to exist, at all.
Another example is dudley, who has a bunch of half circles for his moves. Why though? Wouldnt a fireball motion for MGB work just as well, if not better? Why does it need to be a half circle?
At least in Skullgirls you don’t need to learn a BnB to start playing. When I started, my combo were nothing more than a ground string, launcher, air string, super. It did around 4.000 damage spending 1 meter and I managed to beat people that knew much better combos than me (and I’m not even good at fighting games). I only decided to learn a BnB when I became an intermediate player.
And combos with 8 inputs on SG is much, much easier than many links on SF4. I trained Dudley’s 6MP, s.HP, H upper for months and I still can’t pull that shit consistently in a match.
bwhahah
But we’re not talking about combos (well at least the smart for here are). We’re talking about how much easier it is to get into the game when the most basic stuff is easy to do.
Here’s Mike’s input window formula - 4 frames per direction, 4 extra frames for when directions aren’t adjacent to each other (i.e. forward and down), and two extra frames just for the attack input.
So we get 14 frames from qcfs, 18 frames for DPs (sloppy ones that end in forward, at that).
Add to the fact that the game only has qcf, dp, sonic boom, flash kick and 360 (jump protected so you can’t just while doing them).
As @ukyo_rulz stated, this thread isn’t about the overall execution requirement for fighters, but rather the execution barrier to get started with them in the first place.
I think you have a mistaken understanding of what “basic level” means.
Basic level Skullgirls is mostly folks just hitting magic series strings with maybe, just maybe, one launch into air combo.
Once you start getting into longer, more optimized stuff, that isn’t exactly basic anymore.
In any case, if you have the right team and are good at neutral, than you may not need.
Fuck, I still can’t do Peacock’s basic air launch BnB since I suck at air dash cancelling off single hitting moves, yet I can beat Japanese players with godlike execution simply because I’ve built a good team that turns the game into early 2000s Marvel 2 around a character who only demands that you be able to cancel full screen projectile hits into super for 1/3 life damage.
Why does it matter who is considered more skilled? All that matters is that both are being presented with meaningful and fun challenges. The worse players do not matter to the better players. Do the slimes matter to the level 99 heros? At a certain point all that matters is dragons, and if there was a way to instantly transform a bunch of slimes into dragons so much the better. Well, I guess a certain class of player enjoys beating up on slimes but I would hope that competitive players are above that sort of thing. The only thing that matters to me, as far as newbies are concerned, is leveling them up as fast as possible to the point where they can present me with a challenge. I believe that many potential players might become quite competitive and be great at fighting games, if only there wasn’t this huge initial hurdle for doing basic stuff that turns them off.
There was an extended drought of 2d fighting game releases, so when SF4 came out everyone hopped on the train (because it was the only train). Then once everyone was there, it became worthwhile for more people to hop on. Fighting games are inherently competitive, so the more competitors there are the more worthwhile it is to play a title. You could build the greatest fighting game ever, and it would be useless unless you had someone to play with. Conversely, even a flawed game with a sizable community can be more worthwhile than a better game with a smaller community.