Well put.
However wasn’t the base VST? Would that have no bearing on it?
Sirlin should’ve taken out the options so we get stuck with whatever he put in it lol.
A lot of weird stuff in this thread.
The thing that matters most, that there’s just no way around, is that 4:3 with black bars looks bad. It’s no way to attract new players or present the game to the casual public. It just looks archaic. So the next question would be to ask what tradeoffs are there. This thread has mentioned several wrong “tradeoffs” that aren’t even real things.
“HD Remix wasn’t designed to be widescreen.” I don’t know if that should matter much even if it were true, what matters is whether it turned out well in widescreen or not. FYI, it started as “just an optional feature,” and it was very shaky and disorienting. The version of widescreen that appeared in the pubic beta is completely different than the final, as you might have noticed. We very carefully improved the handling of widescreen and consciously made it the default mode. I did most of my testing in widescreen, too. So yeah it was designed with widescreen in mind.
“The sprites are more blurry.” What? No they aren’t. The source art is scaled less in widescreen mode than in 4:3 actually. This is a non-issue anyway as the sprites look fine in either mode.
“It’s more shaky than 4:3.” You might have that backwards too. The early versions definitely were too shaky. It bothered me a lot, even when you just swept someone and the screen bounced too much. I had the lead programmer turn that shake down and down and down until it seemed right. Then we realized that we turned it down so much, it was even less than the normal shake the game has when you bounce off the floor in 4:3. But it seemed good, so it shipped that way.
“Stuff can go off the top of the screen.” Yeah, in edge cases it can. Ken’s fierce dp goes way up there. In all the games I’ve played of HD Remix, this has mattered exactly zero times though. I never lost a round or even got hit when I “shouldn’t” have because of it. Vega and Bison edge cases are the other worst offenders, and also have never hampered any actual game I have played. If you tried it and say it hampered your game, I can’t tell you that you’re wrong, but maybe adapt a little bit. It’s really minor. The screen does pan up a bit for them, too.
None of that stuff even matters though, really. It’s weird scare-tactics or something. At the end of the day, it just looks bad to put 4:3 content on a widescreen monitor, and it’s especially silly to do so when that content works fine in widescreen and DEFAULTS to widescreen.
As much as a travesty as it would be to show the public 4:3 stuff when we don’t have to, it would be even worse to play the game on PS3… Gameplay testing used Xbox speed 3 as the standard (not the same on PS3!), and it’s best to avoid other mysterious problems in that version. In fact, I just realized that those talking about the look of sprites are probably looking at the PS3 version, which handles sprites a bit differently. Please use Xbox version for real competition.
The black bars thing is really more of an opinion thing. If black bars wierd someone out, then I guess they don’t watch the widescreen versions of movies at home.
I love the PS3 version, a wonderful job that one is, which is null and void for EVO due to the PS3s that got donated to them.
So you’re going to keep the myths going that the PS3 version is any different from the 360 version offline despite people testing the differences ad nauseum? Where is your evidence that offline the PS3 version is so terrible? The only known differences between the PS3 and 360 versions of HDR offline are the sound effects being pitched higher on the PS3 version. Online is a whole different mess, the PS3 version of HDR is garbage over the PSN, but this is an offline tournament so that really doesn’t matter. You X360 fans really need some actual evidence to get a legitimate reason to change EVO from PS3 HDR to X360 HDR.
My vote is for 4:3. For mostly all the reasons Ganelon posted early on.
I do have an HDTV, and I still prefer 4:3 even when I play on it. The black bars are a very small nuisance that I will take over the ugliness and awkwardness of 16:9.
There is one other difference. The sprite scaling is obviously different between the two versions. The XBox appears to use standard texture filtering, while the PS3 does not, which is why the characters/effects look more “pixely” on the PS3.
I own both systems, so I wouldn’t call myself a fan per se…at least not in the derogatory sense. I will say that I do think there’s a difference between the two. I don’t have any hard proof, but I think it’s more than a coincidence that’s caused TONS of XBox players to exclaim something about lag or speed issues when they show up to a tournament that’s run on PS3. I’ve thought about investing more time trying to track down what the differences are myself, but I haven’t because I think it’s futile. If Evo said to us “OK, we’ll buy XBoxs, but only if you can give us proof of the differences” then I’d be all over it. But I doubt that’ll happen, so I just never bothered to spend more time researching it. I suspect others are in the same boat.
Totally subjective. 4:3 looks better to me and other people too.
I just had another thought.
I was led to believe the philosophy of the Evolution tournaments were to play the way the game was designed with no character or settings banned/changed unless it was proven to be broken.
Are the Evo directors not willing to follow their own rules regarding widescreen for HDR? It wasn’t even given a chance! Sirlin already said they designed HDR with widescreen in mind and tested the game in widescreen.
Are the majority of the top players affected by widescreen to the point they are no longer placing in semi-finals or above?
The answer is NO. (I would make NO larger if was possible!)
Proof?
Well, all you have to do is look at tournaments like Westcoast Warzone and Devastation which held their tourneys in widescreen and see the same top players.
So unless the Evo tournament directors can offer proof that HDR widescreen is no good for the players, they should follow their own rules and leave widescreen as the default.
I don’t think Sirlin can be considered the designer of the game in the same sense that we can with someone like Ono. He and his team tweaked an existing game, they didn’t make one from scratch. HDR is 99% ST. And ST was designed for 4:3.
SF2 has always been played full screen (prior to Evo2k9). Not really sure why anyone would want to change that now. EA, Sweet, I hear what you guys are saying about the stretching but I would still prefer to play 4:3 with those settings. How did most of you 4:3 proponents play HF on 360? Did you guys play via the "condensed’ box or did you go with the other alternative (stretching it out to fill the screen)? I stretched it out from day 1 on that game and it looked perfect.
Funny thing is, regardless of what the Evo staff decides on the issue, I think the tourneys that were run with Widescreen will still use them next year.
Lastly, black bars kill bunnies…seriously.
Your right about that. This year has been kinda fucked with work, but as long as I’m a part of the Denjin ranbats we will be running widescreen tournaments.
If I have to adjust to play with the archaic 4:3 representation at Evo, I will. Realistically it can be run either way, but we all have our preferences. I just hope we can reach some conclusion via majority and go with it as a community. Because if not we’ll be driving the stake into SF2 even farther.
This is what this whole thread comes down to for me. 16:9 or 4:3 makes practically no difference at high level play, as long as you’ve had a while and a few friendly (money) matches to get accustomed to the look and feel of either aspect ratio any top player will perform just as well on either, but 16:9 is fresher and more modern looking and should be the standard to give the game a better chance to attract newer players. Black bars just look BAD, end of story.
Perfectly put. Everybody knows ST was built for 4:3, that’s not the issue, it’s whether the job that HDR does of working it into 16:9, along with it’s minor, minor niggles, is a better option than the crappy black bars on the 4:3 settings. In my oppinion, as well as about 55% of people who’ve answered the poll on this thread at the moment, it is.
You guys have elected presidents on tighter majorities than that…
Agreed, again. I think the whole “off screen moves” argument is a red herring in the aspect ratio discussion to back up the old purist 4:3 point of view. It REALLY doesn’t make that much of a difference, and i say that after putting in a lot of time in training mode learning ways to abuse it. I main bison, and the most useful thing i’ve figured out how to do with it in 16:9 that doesn’t work in 4:3 is to do a DR immediately on landing after pulling off a super into a 2xMP juggle. If i time the 2nd hit of the juggle right, nice and late, so i’m on my way down when i hit them and they’re going upwards from the hit, i can DR off the top of the screen (because the trajectory of the move is relative to where they are when i activate it).
The only advantage this gives me is an ambiguous crossup opportunity for which side of the opponent i’m going to come down on for their wakeup. I can steer myself around in mid air while i’m off screen, when they can’t see any part of me for a second so don’t know where i am, and score a possible crossup knockdown from the DR if they don’t guess right on how to block or reversal me. Quite frankly, in that situation, with that positioning, dictator can be anywhere he wants to be on the screen, and has a number of better mixup and shenanigans options on an opponent’s wakeup anyway, so it really doesn’t make much of a a difference to his options. It’s just another “circus trick”.
Like i posted earlier, there are loads of wierder more game affecting anomalies in the game engine that have a far greater bearing on the outcome of matches than how the new aspect ratio affects certain moves, and we’ve put up with all of those for years. “Off screen moves” just don’t make enough of a difference to HDR for it to be an issue, tournament level or otherwise…
BTW, sirlin, i haven’t replied to any of your posts on SRK before, so just wanted to say good job on HDR. It’s not perfect as we all know, but i would much rather have it around, bugs and all, than not have it. I like the whole premise of the remix, and while of course there’s disagreement over some of your choices i think you did a good job overall and it’s definitely a more accessible game.
It’s definitely my fave street fighter game of the lot, even over the original ST. Shame capcom hasn’t got the same aftersales love for it as we all have.:sad:
Yep, this, agreed 100% . Get over it and stick to the default settings…(except for the music, change that, cos the CPS2 OST rocks :rock:)
I have to agree too, while i think you can adjust to either of the default aspects, i’ve played 4:3 stretched to 16:9 in the past and it’s like learning the game all over again. This has too much potential to affect spacing, judgement, etc, and would only lead to tourney performance being watered down across the board as EVERYBODY would have to get used to it.
Thank you. You and your bro have a DISGUSTING Ryu BTW. Commiserations on not picking up a win against daigo at SB last year. Not sure which one of you was playing, but it was one of the best matches i’ve seen in a while. :tup:
LOL again…
OK…Grey dictator for the win evey time, and in-N-out buger is waaaay better than mcdonalds…(sorry, couldn’t resist:rofl:)
It’s too bad if you really think about it. There has always been some type of controversy over ST and HDR. The further I step back from it, the more I see the futility of it. At first, I personally preferred 4:3. But that’s I because I am used to it. But, the more I really think about it… the less I really care. I can make the adjustments. 16:9 is fine.
I think ANOTHER debate of this nature, is only going to do more harm than good to the community. 'Cause its never going to stop.
********* If the the EVO ‘powers that be’ really question as what to do. Have those who register for HDR @ EVO vote on 4:3 or 16:9 when the register. Tally them up and then make the majority vote the tournament setting. That way those who are REALLY going to go to EVO have their voice heard. Basically, its letting the HDR players put their money where their mouth is. That way majority actually going to EVO, get what they want. It should be pretty simple.
If you not going to EVO then you shouldn’t have any say on what the tournament standard should be.*********
Another brother has seen the light. We’re not a powerhouse game anymore, and everyone else just looks at ST players as cantankerous people too set in their ways to adjust. Let’s just deal.
I really like this idea.
That sounds like a terrific idea!
I agree!
Thats 'cuase I’m an F’n pimp! LOL…j/k
-fatty :china:
Nah, you’re just good at manipulating people :wgrin:
Seriously though, “black bars look bad”, that’s pure opinion.