BS. A great man once said “Capcom could devise a way for Cammy to come out of the monitor and felate you if you won and people would still complain that it’s not Chun.” :arazz:
I’ve stated my opinion in the past, I’d prefer 4:3, no I’m not backing anything up with technical detail, it’s just my preference. If I’m playing 16:9 all I ask is that it’s on a good enough TV to run it.
In all honesty though instead of fighting over this we should be fighting to guarentee ourselves a spot at Evo. Not sure how many of you go onto #capcom but HDR is a candidate for the axe, and yes they know it got the second most entrants.
I really feel that making sure we’re even there is more important than which dimension size to use if it’s there. In all honesty though I can’t think of what game they’d replace HDR with…
^^^ This has been my sentiment for a while now. And is what eventually got me off of the ST >HDR rant last year. I don’t care if it is ST or HDR, 4:3 or 16:9. I just want some version of OG SF at EVO. Though I think having the 4:3 vs 16:9 debate is entertaining. I think it would be prudent to focus everyone’s energy on solidifying a spot for HDR at EVO. If HDR is not at EVO, then this thread and others like it become a mute point.
Perhaps it has run its course. Listen to you guys, OMG ST/HDR/HF/CE ISN’T GOING TO BE AT EVO :sad: Let it go, the game has been around and played much longer than a lot of other games, alpha and 3 are essentially gone.
No offense really no offense, but is the game THAT important? Its like its the end of the world if its not at evo. The game is 20 years old. It had a good run, so if it has to leave let it.
You guys act like there won’t be people to play online if evo doesn’t have a tourney for it.(Although, I’m certainly not happy with online BSN HDR)
I think the standard going forward should be widescreen, but more because that’s the way technology is moving than because of any inherent issues that the altered aspect ratio causes during gameplay. I’ve had this argument with tons of people during games, and honestly, i see the points of view of people who like 4:3, but i really don’t see how it makes any serious difference to the gameplay, and it leaves the game rooted in the past instead of looking fresh and attractive to new players.
I main a character that allows me to use the decreased vertical height of the 16.9 aspect ratio in remix to my slight advantage sometimes if i want to and i don’t think i’ve ever had a single instance of it making any kind of major material difference to a match. It COULD happen, sure, but in reality, there are a million other wierd anomalies likely to occur in the SSF2T engine (backward facing normals, wierd hitboxes, reversal glitches, etc, etc) that will have much more of a material difference in the outcome of gameplay if they happen than aspect ratio related stuff and screen shaking and so on will.
I just think that when you balance that against the fact that 95% of people playing or spectating a match, as well as most people watching a recorded match are going to be watching it on a 16:9 TV set, or in 16:9 letterbox format on youtube or whatever, the better, more attractive option is 16:9. It’s only my personal preference, but i think the tourney scene should move with the times and reflect that. The default for games produced in the last several years has been 16:9, we should go with it, and try to keep the games we want to stay strong looking fresh and modern, and not risk alienating newer players who have probably been playing in 16:9 most of their gaming lives.
I also agree with a lot of other posters here: The bigger concern should be whether HDR/OG street fighter 2 is even going to be available to the tourney crowd as an option over the next while. I would hate to see it disappear, because SF2 is the pinnacle of fighting games to me, but i’ve noticed the numbers of online players on Remix drop off steadily over the last few months, and to make things worse, Super street fighter IV is going to hit HDR numbers hard when it drops in Q2 this year.
HD Remix needs a PC release and/or a back compatible hard copy release to keep it alive long term past the current generation of consoles. XBOX360/PS3 will eventually die, and HDR will probably die with them unless that happens, but meanwhile, i think anything that keeps it looking new and fresh at tourneys rather than dated and “90’s” should be the way to go.
Is SF2 that important? Really? Perhaps your sentiment can be attributed to your age?
SF2 has always been the standard for fighting games are far as the “general public” is concerned. SF2 IS the scene’s most marketable product. Sure, SF4 has drawn in new interest, but can anyone say that people will still revere SF4 15 yrs from now? SF2 has stood the test of time and I’m hoping one day Evo will eventually market it right. But the only way that can happen is for the current SF2 game that is getting played to actually be at the tourney.
If no version of SF2 is at Evo, I can say that I will wash my hands clean of Evo. I wouldn’t go as far as saying the scene too, but I’m hoping someone else would run a major SF2 tourney in Evo’s place.
Edit: I’m on #Capcom right now…where da’ cavalry at?!
I know I’m on the EVO Staff, but I never really am a part of these kind of decisions, so don’t take what I’m about to say as any indication of where it’s going.
But here’s what the arguments boil down to:
Pro 16:9 - Looks better, 4:3 is old! Black bars are helllla ugly.
Pro 4:3 - 16:9 screen shakes kinda bother me a bit. Zoomed in look is kinda blurry.
The pro 16:9 people are simply arguing aesthetics. They “hate black bars” and 4:3 is too old-fashioned. Is that really a reason? The pro 4:3 people actually state that the different resolution can actually be bothersome at times. In other words, the transition from 16:9 to 4:3 is almost non-existent (something even pro 16:9 players admit) whereas the transition from 4:3 to 16:9 takes some getting used to.
Though I will admit, if players can set a standard now so that everyone, starting from today, played on 16:9, I’d have no opposition to it. It’s just that we’d have to establish this now (with or without EVO) and get people playing consistently on one format. If everyone is given time to get used to 16:9, then there is really no argument.
The game is extremely important. Do you think any of the later SF games will have the 19+ year popularity that SF2 has had? How about any fighting game in general?
I really laugh when I read stuff like this. I’m a Hyper Fighting guy and hated Super SF2 when it came out. Super SF2 Turbo was an improvement but no where near as balanced as Hyper. In the early 2000s when Super Turbo started to become popular again with tournaments and such, I did play it for a little bit since that’s what everyone was playing. Last year I got a PS3 and started playing HD remix after many years off from SF2 in general. Would I prefer if everyone was playing Hyper Fighting today? Absolutely, and I would even take Anniversary Edition over Super Turbo/Remix But this is the current game we have and this is what everyone is currently playing so I’m here along for the ride. In general though, Super Turbo and HD Remix are not that different.
I voted for 16:9 btw… Although it takes some time to get use to the shakes.
This is exactly right, and my biggest fear when it comes to HDR. I get the feeling that it doesn’t get taken seriously because, “It’s only a download title”.
It is my age, I’m 22 and didn’t have the opportunity to be part of the arcade scene. Maybe that allows me to have a different viewpoint, Yes the game is the crowning achievement of fighting games, I won’t argue that, but you have to consider what the current generation prefers(I don’t fall into this category), graphics, flash, super easy mode stuff. HDR doesn’t have this, and it is aging even if that doesn’t make it a bad game it is aging.
It is interesting to note that alpha has died off, and for the most part so has 3s. HDR was like an adrenaline boost, new consoles got it away from the ST dreamcast, but the game and sometimes the community is extremely unforgiving to new people, and also doesn’t help that SSFIV is right around the corner.
@MACK
We already know that Capcom cares more about shit than this game(still waiting on a PS3 patch that will never come), making a PC or disc release almost impossible.
Also, I know some of you guys don’t like IV, but why can’t you play both games? Is IV that bad of a game that you don’t want to play it? It might not be around in 15 years, but HDR might not be either. What if IV was, you’d just stop playing because the next system doesn’t allow you to play HDR?
Cooperation Cup and SBO are still strongly supporting 3S as are many if not most arcades in Japan. 3S is still regularly in the top ten rankings at Arcadia. And 3S still has an active international community and is always crowded on GGPO and 2DF. Saying that 3S has died off like the Alpha series is woefully and obnoxiously ignorant. You know nothing about the 3S scene it seems so why you would state that it has died ‘for the most part’ is beyond me. 3S even beat SFIV some months in Arcadia’s rankings. And as far as ST goes, X-Mania had the largest turnout this year of any other, meaning ST in Japan is more alive than it has been over the last couple of years. ST and 3S are far from dead in Japan, and they are far from being as lifeless as the Alpha series has become in the U.S. as well.
Who said that HDR is a candidate for the axe? If anything all I’ve heard from #Capcom, since EVO last year, was that HDR had a guaranteed spot at EVO for this year as well simply because of the high turnout. Not only that but any of the Japanese players that come for other games (mostly SFIV) will be familiar enough with ST to adapt to HDR if they want to. Didn’t Daigo win a U.S. tournament (Season’s Beatings?) that had HDR as a game? And he entered HDR last year.
If Marvel is coming back for yet another year then I don’t possibly see how HDR would get axed before that game.
Exactly. EVO dropping SF2 would be pathetic. Though we could use our own X-Mania anyways (for ST and not HDR).
I said this a while back and I’ll say it again: The day that five consecutive DPs were STUFFED by jump-ins from some random scrub online was the day I sold SFIV.
No real offense here, but who were you using, each dp has a purpose with ken(mp for AA), and for ryu it needs to be a fierce or a jab at the last second since that leads into trade > stuff.
The game is not that bad. The problem is ultras getting built up by being attacked, and fadc to make srks safe, and throws are weak. I said the same thing for about a year, until I realized that I don’t have offline HDR here, and online sucks with west coast. So I learned more about it.
I honestly used to think 3s and SFIV were both shitty games until I actually tried playing the games and learning all the little intricacies they have. While neither of them are as awesome as ST/HDR, I do enjoy them both.
Yep, I used :mp: DP’s all five times and initiated them all at different times (although playing SF for more than a decade, I should hope I know how to time a DP as an AA) and all five of them were stuffed. I saw the jump-ins from a mile a way and wanted to DP for a knock down to start my cross-up game but obviously that didn’t work…
Oh, and this is just for me, but I really hate SFIV Ken so that’s another reason why I don’t play IV. I don’t not like Ken in the sense that he doesn’t have his spammable :lp: DP from HDR but that he is all around useless.
I’m pro 16:9, and It is a question of asthetics, but i think there’s a more important issue arising out of that. The SF2 scene is unfortunately dying on the vine at the moment, and i think anybody that has any kind of role in making a decision like this should be thinking along the lines of trying to keep SF2 as new and fresh looking as possible while still preserving the core mechanics of the game that differentiate it over titles like SFIV, tekken, or whatever.
I think what the 2 sides of the argument boil down to (for me anyways) is either play 16:9 and put up with the relatively minor shortcomings it causes, but keep the game as accessable and fresh looking as possible so that it might attract new blood, OR play it in 4:3 like it was designed without any of the new issues, but risk having more new players turn their noses up at it and move onto something else instead.The same applies for the new graphics, sprites, rebalances, and motions, but that’s an entirely different thread…
I’m perfectly comfortable playing either 16:9 or 4:3, i play widescreen HDR a lot, and also i play ST in it’s native aspect ratio offline quite a bit, and i really don’t see that there’s any major difference, i can accustom myself to either one rapidly. I just think that the risk of ostracising new players from the IV scene or whatever, who might otherwise pick up HDR and add to the strength/popularity of it’s community outweighs any considerations about minor gameplay intricacies that come up because of playing in a format that’s esentially a good looking and fairly functional graphical workaround.
On a personal enjoyment level, my preference is 16.9, i just like the way it looks more, but even if i preferred 4:3 it wouldn’t change my oppinion that the default standard across the board should be the one that looks the most modern and attractive.
It’s a question of keeping the game fresh and attractive or letting it die out because it didn’t keep up with graphical advances, even though it’s gameplay beats anything that’s out there to this day.
This is basically a synopsis of what my lengthy waffle above was on about. The only chance we have of the SF2 scene and HDR sticking around for a few more years yet is if we can attract some of the new influx of players from the IV scene and turn them onto the older, more difficult learning curve of HDR, rather than pushing them away. At the moment, HDR doesn’t appeal to anybody who didn’t already play SF2 at some level before, and there are hordes of new kids entering the scene through games like SFIV who never heard of it.
If the people who play SF2/HDR at the moment keep on being the only people who play it, it will eventually die, and there won’t be a damn thing capcom or anyone will do about it, because IV is their new baby now, and 2 is like a forgotten older child. The SF2 community IS a little purist, eliteist and unforgiving to new people at the moment, and i think this is kind of “biting the hand that feeds you” long term, because without new players getting interested in it, HDR’s clock is ticking…
I read a really good article on the front page of SRK a week or so ago from inkblot (i think) about how SRK dropped the ball last year and should have been more welcoming to the “09ers” that flooded the site with the release of IV, and he was completely right. Whether you like it or not, newer players like those guys are the ones most likely to take an interest in the legacy of street fighter and go back to some of the older games to take a look after they’ve gotten tired of “easy mode” street fighter 4. The same influx that happened in 09 is going to be re-run this year for super SFIV and this time we should be in a better frame of mind about new players and be ready to be a bit more welcoming IMO. When they get here the message they get should not be “this is where the best hang out, so if you’re not the best then fuck off, we don’t want to hear from you”, it should be " this is where the best hang out, you’re welcome to come in and try to learn from us and improve your game. We know you’re a noobie now, but in time we hope to be able to pass the torch to you and keep our community strong".
360/PS3 HDR is now the de facto choice if you want to go back and play an old school SF2 game. It beats all the other options like dreamcast, arcade, etc hands down in terms of accessibility and freshness. If we can get 5% of the people who get serious about SSIV in 2010 to take a look at the street fighter legacy games and try them out, can you imagine what that would do to rejuvinate the popularity of HDR?
Yeah, i know. It’s annoying, but that’s why i think trying to get new players into this game instead of pushing them away is important. HDR is basically SF2’s last gasp, and i keep hoping that the community will start embracing new players and boosting it’s numbers so that maybe capcom will see that it’s had a spike in popularity and may do something about making it a more permanent fixture.
Yep, agreed 100%. There’s an untapped market out there (japan, asia) that would snap it up if it was released there, and i know for a fact i would buy anything that capcom tried to sell me if i could get HDR with it on a disc as a “bonus” or whatever. Christ, the bundled copy of 3s with online support was the main reason i bought anniversary collection on the original XBOX. I paid full retail for a game that i already owned on PS2 just for an extra that was “thrown in”.
I would pay full new release retail price for a PC copy of HDR without a second’s hesitation. It would be more of the usual blatant rip-offery by capcom, but i would be their bitch (yet again).
I don’t know about anyone else, but i just found IV and HDR to be TOO incompatible to play both simultaneously. The timing, input windows, etc, etc, just didn’t lend themselves to each other enough to be comfortable, so it was an “either or” situation for me. After playing one for any length of time i just felt i had trained myself into it, and really sucked with the other one, so i made a choice, and it was HDR.
The main reasons i ditched IV were Input latency, terrible online experience, and general overall lack of proper character balancing, along with a general feel of the game having been “rushed out” before it was ready. All the other minor issues like annoying music, stupid announcers, etc, i could overlook for a solid fighting experience, but at the time HDR was offering balanced gameplay, readily available opponents, and the best online experience out there so i went with that.
I have to admit though, i am planning to take a look at what happens to HDR’s online community post SSIV release, and see how they’ve worked out the kinks in relation to the niggles i had with IV, and then make a call whether i’m going to give HDR a rest for a while and try to get into SSFIV for a bit instead. The lure of the size of the IV community playing a game that was properly put together and being able to get good, stable games against plenty of quality opponents, versus me waiting for 10 minutes between matches in HDR is just too strong to ignore.
Stop spamming lp DP in HDR, it’s a pain in the arse. Stick to stuff that works offline. I’m fed up of getting battered with second or third dragon punches because of frameskip every time i punish you on landing even though my timing is perfect. I know i can swat you out of the air instead for an easy, safe hit, but I DON’T WANT TO. I LIKE COMBOS!
But this is the current game we have and this is what everyone is currently playing so I’m here along for the ride. In general though, Super Turbo and HD Remix are not that different.
Stick to stuff that works offline. I’m fed up of getting battered with second or third dragon punches because of frameskip every time i punish you on landing even though my timing is perfect. I know i can swat you out of the air instead for an easy, safe hit, but I DON’T WANT TO. I LIKE COMBOS! 