This goddammit.
The thing about HDR and next systems. The thing that bothers me with it being a download title is that once HDR is pulled from the marketplace; if my HDD dies, it’s no more HDR for me. I can’t just go on ebay and find a used copy.
Yeah, that sucks, and it’s one of the reasons i fear HDR is a flash in the pan, but on the bright side, capcom sells everything to everybody several times. They trade heavily on their back catalogue and like to shaft their loyal fan base over and over again with shoddy ports of games from their heyday.
I don’t know how many re-issued re mastered, re-released iterations of their SF2 games i’ve bought over the years, it must be in triple figures by now, but if their past sales strategies are anything to go by you’ll get a chance to buy HDR again in some form at some point, just not NOW, when people are actually up for playing it.
As soon as the next “next gen” console is released, there will be a street fighter game on it before you can say “cheap half assed backbone porting job”, and if it’s a street fighter 2 game that’s in the offing, chances are it will be HDR as that’s supposed to be the" definitive" title in the series.
Anyways, thread derailment over. Sorry…
Really? I didn’t find the community to be elitist at all… I mean I never had an arcade scene growing up. I played SF2 in a cabinet at a truck stop. I played turbo on my Genesis but I only played the computer and against my button mashing sister. I played the HDR beta and my eyes were opened. Then the full version came out and I realized how bad I was. I realized how much I didn’t know. But I don’t feel anyone who takes this game seriously ever acted in an elitist or ‘uppity’ manner. Maybe its because I never really got to play ST (and since then I have and I personally still like HDR better… probably because R. Cammy >>>> N/O Cammy IMO).
I have found the people playing here to be infintely better than those who play SF4. Yes, we can rehash entire threads about getting more people in, I mean there was that whole thread on not letting HDR die that was directed at West Coast Players and I think many of us shared ideas there. All this is to say, I’m not sure I agree with your premise. I mean any player I don’t recognize playing, when I play them, whether I win or lose, I always go out of my way to say good game, we need more ‘blank’ players, or whatever. Kindness goes a long way and I’ve personally felt that in terms of the ratio HDR is like 9 good people for every 1 bad apple. SF4 might be more like 60/40.
Also, to the comment that said that HDR’s learning curve was steeper… maybe this is my personal experience, but I find 4 MUCH harder to play than HDR. Is this just me? I feel like HDR is more strict on movement inputs and 4 is more strict on button inputs. But overall I think HDR is easier to pick up and play.
Oh, one last thing. Both sides of the 4:3 vs. 16:9 have said that tournaments have been run in their respective formats.
Would it be possible to put together a list in chronological order of tournaments with HDR and to see what screen format they used starting from EVO 09? I think actually looking at the data and putting it together could actually prove beneficial to this.
Mr. Wizard. Everything’s still speculation though.
Edit: Also I hate to sound like an ass but if a fighting game’s not widescreen it’ll turn away new people? Really? If something as trivial as this is the deciding factor on whether they decide to play a game or not then I can’t see them being too serious about the game in the first place. If the game’s “not purrty enuff” and it turns them away, what’s stopping them from going to 4 in the first place? Again I don’t mind if it’s 16:9 on a TV with the same format but let’s snap out of this theory world everyone seems to be in.
i dont care really i used to play widescreen all the time andthen evo came and i was like WTF but i did fine i really don’t care. As For HD Getting the cut i don’t believe it will ST is the Heart of the Evolution Championship Series this game brings in the old schoolers with the semi old ones lol and the new comers so if they think being the second highest turnout arfter SF IV last year is bad then i don’t know what they want really… whats left after HD?
Super Street Fighter II Turbo Revival?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PAHNFQ4VL.SL500_AA280.jpg
^^ that game was fun all things considered… Just saying… don’t judge me!
The thing is Mack, there are plenty of people that play both games and do fine, aside from the pros. Now if you are trying to use your remix characters in IV than that will cause problems.
Golden, yeah ken is alot more like his 3s version, which is why I prefer gouken, he’s a different kind of shoto.
I think that’s what sullied me the most on SFIV. In HDR, I love using the setups and mind games to ultimately put people in the corner or to start knee bash loops and other BS. But in IV, there’s pretty much none of that.
Oh, and Ultras. What was the reason for turning an innocuous poke by the dominating player into a game ending mistake? It’s like you get rewarded for sucking.
I think you guys need to stop worrying about the game not being available for next gen systems. That thought has never crossed my mind. You want to know why, because it is a downloadable title. I can assure you it will not be a problem to put onto another system. We live in the age of downloading guys. While I love have copies of my games (I have too many) there are times I wish my games were easily accessible via my hard drive. It is so convenient to play HDR because it is on my hard drive where as I have so many games on disc that I do not play because I have something else in the tray.
Case in point with how downloadable titles may work in our favor look at what has happended with games being backwards compatitble on both the PS3 and 360. We were fortunate to get Anniversary Edition with Third Strike as a backwards compatible title but what about the other great fighting games we can not play. Capcom vs SnK2 comes to mind as well as Street Fighter Alpha 3. Look Marvel vs Capcom 2 has done great and I assure you it will continue getting played now because of it being a DL title. Also look at how far on-line gaming has gone in regards to the netcode. Look at AE editon that was on xbox. Actually look at how Hyper Fighter was on XBLA and you can see things have progressed greatly.
Anyhow I could be wrong but I dont see HDR dying because it is a DL title. Microsoft I am sure has data on how much the game is being played. Sure it might not be as popular as UNO but in terms of a fighting game via DL I think it is tops next to Marvel vs Capcom 2. Also as long as you keep your gold account active even if your hard drive dies you can download it again for no charge.
What your saying is, it takes more skill to win with Ken and you wont do it.
Sorry but I get tired of people saying stuff like that. I played Hyper Fighting Sim and he was horrible. But I played with what he had. I didnt choose to avoid the game because he was weak. I acutally knew some excellent Ryu’s in HF that didnt like Ryu in HDR because the fireball wasnt as godly as it was in HF. Do you guys remember Wax Taylor. Dude had a phenomenal Ryu. But that was his reason for not playing HDR. I actually thought Ryu was better in HDR. But guess what he loves Ryu in SFIV. Why, because Ryu is truly godly in it. Anyways I am playing SFIV with Sim and he is so different. Sure right off the bat he is not as dominant as HDR but with all variations he has a steep learning curve and just requires more thought to use.
Everybody would love to have a top tier, easy character to play with. Unfortunately it doesnt always happen that way.
WTF?! That doesn’t make any sense at all.
While I prefer widescreen HDR, I’d rather play the PS1 port of ST than not play SF2 at all. Is there some discussion on SRK where we can show our support for the OG at Evo?
^^^^ Agreed, my sentiments exactly.
Those of you that are in favor of 4:3
Please stop for a moment and think about this from the perspective of a new player. The GOP got some traction with their “Joe the plumber” moniker so I’m going to go with “Bob the Shoto”. Bob the Shoto is a fairly inexperienced player. He’d probably lose to most people posting on this thread. He can do the occasional fireball, the occasional DP. Jump RH, low RH is a big combo.
Stop for a moment and please consider that most people playing HDR are like Bob. To Bob, a crossup is a mysterious tactic. He may not understand why he couldn’t block.
Bob probably doesn’t even know that there are multiple speeds to choose from. Bob probably doesn’t even know that you can pick a 4:3 aspect ratio. Let me quote Tom Cannon’s SRK front page post to remind us all that new players are what we must welcome and target.
We need to target Bob the Shoto. Bob might hear about Evo and decide to go. It would be confusing and wierd for him to have the game played in a different aspect ratio. We need to target and welcome new players. I think this is important so I will repeat it.
Target Bob. Target the new player. Instead of asking the new player to adjust to us, we need to adjust to the new player.
The cost to the community of Bob having to adjust is much much higher than the cost of someone like Ganelon having to adjust. Look, come on man. Any player posting on this forum can adjust easily. We should be doing everything we can to make tournaments accessible for the new players, the Bobs. The people that we’ve never heard of. Thelo and Jiggly have the right idea. If you play 4:3 at home, that’s fine, but please support the default if only for the sake of the new player. We want to welcome new players. New players are playing 16:9 because that’s the deafult option. It’s logical to make tournaments also follow the default option.
Fun, yeah, but also horribly tested. I can’t believe they put this on store shelves without even beating Gouki.
Well, here’s a sampling of the 4:3 tourneys mentioned by NKI and me pre-Evo this year. I know pretty much all WC used 16:9 though (except Evo):
Final Round in Atlanta, GA
Aerial Rave in St. Louis, MO
Arcadia UFO tournament in Austin, TX
Max Out in Kansas City, KS
DBQ in Dubuque, IA
Stunfest in Rennes, France
MWC in Chicago, IL
SinSation in Fairfax, VA
every C3 after the first in Ashburn, VA
NEC in Philadelphia, PA
ECT in Morristown, NJ
If you’re thinking of putting together a full list of tourneys, please be my guest. Hell, if you could take down all the results and send them to damdai to put on his Tonamento site, that’d be awesome.
I don’t see how anybody is pushing new players away with something as simple as black bars that everyone who’s watched movies is used to seeing. I know folks around here actively trying to get new players involved. I’ve given part of my tourney pot to local players in the past just to encourage them to keep at it. Plus, ST is always hyped on SRK; in many polls, it’s listed around the top.
Then, after getting into the scene, there are so many resources to getting better: videos of Japan’s best, detailed strategies here, easy access to comp on GGPO or either platform for HDR, wide array of available controller options. There’s no obfuscation barrier or keeping track of complex motions. There’s no fear that the mechanics will be outdated in the trails of such a legendary game. It’s a clear path to competition for anyone who really wants at it, just as it was when I started.
And that brings me to another point: I’m not sure how long you’ve kept track of the US SF2 scene but it hasn’t gotten any worse these years. I remember looking at tourney results after the turn of the millennium and the arcade ST numbers in majors are pretty much the same as current HDR numbers. The only difference is that with SF4’s success leading to larger tourneys, the heightened expectations may lead some folks to forget their roots. I think it would be very disappointing if that’s the case here but I trust tourney organizers to do what they feel is right.
zass, I’m fine with adjusting if there’s a reason; the earliest EC HDR tourney I attended was in 16:9 so I’ve given it a try. But I just don’t see any more Bobs for the 16:9 tourneys you all hold than we do for our 4:3 tourneys. Bob may even find the 4:3 screen more memorably similar to the game he played in the good old 90s (ironic how Palin made the analogy yet the popular vote showed her views didn’t even correspond to the average person). As Grog said, while 16:9 may be preferred by casual fans, is it enough to attract them to play and become a contender in the game?
The real heartbreak here is that we as a community didn’t pounce on deciding the aspect ratio the same time we banned Gouki. At the moment, it’s really hard to come to a consensus. I’ve already made my points here so I’m not sure what else I can say. But in either case, yeah, I’ll also take HDR on any settings over no SF2. A version of ST has been the one constant of every Evo; it’d be a real pity to see that legacy die.
Don’t play Ken like HDR, then. Choose someone else. And DP’s work fine as anti-airs. I’m guessing the problems largely come from online play. But offline, you should be able to anti-air a Jump in with Ken cleanly 100% of the time. DP’s don’t get stuffed in this game any more than any other SF.
The players who play HDR are far more hardcore due to the size of the community. The PS2 had waaaaaay more shitty games than the Gamecube and the XBox… did that make it a worse console? No, it’s just volume. Right now, the Wii has the most shitty games, but again, it’s because of volume. Same goes for SFIV. Everyone plays it, so you’ll get lots of crappy players. In HDR, everyone who plays it is hardcore, so you’ll get a MUCH better pool of players playing HDR. Same goes for gamesl ike Guilty Gear. Those who play it and are a part of the Guilty Gear scene, I don’t think you can find a single scrub in that community.
SFIV is far more casual friendly, and I don’t mean that as a compliment. In SFIV, you have Ultras that are basically Street Fighter’s answer to Smash Balls. They are user-friendly, they ALWAYS give you a chance to win, and they are pretty. You know what makes HDR harder to play? The Ken that mashes Jab DP and perfects you two rounds in a row. That Honda player who sits there and stuff every attempt you make to attack. HDR is a brutal, brutal game, and losing in HDR is more demoralizing than most games (maybe only getting locked down by an Eddie in Guilty Gear is more demoralizing, because it’s a slow, painful death that you can do nothing about).
SFIV makes players feel like they are always doing something that’s working, and even when getting beat up they are sorta being rewarded. Is it a stupid system? Hell yeah. Does it keep players in the game. HELL yeah. In HDR, when you get comboed, dizzied, and recomboed, you get nothing but a loss. No Ultra, no nothing. It’s a very tough thing to take.
So I think the argument you are making, Julian, is actually backwards. Bob the Shoto doesn’t have a 16:9 TV. Frankly, HDTV’s are still the minority in this country. Bob the Shoto is still playing on his shitty TV that takes in Composite cables. So trust me, he’s playing in 4:3. How many times have people gotten mad at companies for not testing their games on standard def? Dead Rising, King Kong, and many other games were chastised for not working properly on 4:3, standard def. And that’s because that’s what Bob the Shoto plays on. The majority of gamers out there are still stuck on standard def TVs.
- James
This is something that just came across my mind.
Regarding the speeds between HDR and ST, ST is a little faster than HDR when set to Speed 3 right (According to what Ganelon said)?
So if you guys adjusted to the speed of HDR, couldn’t you do the same for the 16:9 ratio?
Coming from someone who has never gotten into Street Fighter until Remix came out, I’ve never noticed any shaking (Started playing on the default 16:9) until some of the pro 4:3 mentioned it. When I switched back and forth between 16:9 and 4:3, I basically said, “That’s it? That’s what players are complaining about?”.
If an ametuer like me can adjust, the vets can as well! :clown:
sorry if i came across harsh Golden. i just reread my post. Yes Ken is is different and is not to your liking.
DC ST has a constant speed at each speed setting regardless of stage but arcade ST has a range of different speeds at the same speed setting (Turbo 3 is the US tourney standard) depending on the stage. Basically, arcade ST players have already had to adjust to different speeds from stage to stage.
The main questions 16:9ers may want to ask themselves (and most conducive to any change if there are good answers) are:
- Are there examples of increased participation in any event after switching from 4:3 to 16:9, or vice versa?
- What’s different this year compared to last year that Evo should change to 16:9 for HDR?
Ok seriously 4:3 proponents, have ANY of you tried what I suggested or even be willing to compromise with that? I’ll reiterate it again…if you’re going to play on 4:3, then SWITCH THE CONSOLE’S GENERAL DISPLAY SETTINGS TO 480P RESOLUTION so the game will still be played full screen. This game needs to be presentable on some level. Full screen does that, huge black bars do not.